Writing a script in 10 days?

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  • #31
    Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

    What I find the most interesting are the "Oh, m'God no way!" responses from people who seem to be writing from a blank page one through to the end, ie. without any outlining or planning or even at least "thinking" beforehand.

    How about we all dive into a lake, and just figure out how far we can swim each day, even though we can't even see the shore on the other side!?

    With this criticism in mind, I'll say that I take 3-4 days to write my scripts.

    Wait! We're talking about that script document with the industry standard styles and fonts, etc., the thing that ends up as 105 pages or so, aren't we? If so, that's about how long I take.

    BUT, I've spent weeks beforehand, outlining the thing!

    Here's an old screen snap of one of my outline docs that I posted over on the Amazon Studios forum (which is about to close down, incidentally). Some newbie writers there thought it was useful:

    http://www.catconsulting.ca/stevegar...le_outline.jpg

    That particular script outline took me over two weeks.

    So, once I finished the outlining - leaving absolutely NO GAPS in logic or story-line - I merely cut and pasted the detailed Act 1-3 part of it right into my script template.

    Voila! My script is already about 40 pages long (sometimes more). That's a nice way to begin the actual writing task; ie. you're not facing a blank page that says "1 of 1" and you know you need to turn it into "105 of 105" (or whatever).

    Thus, you can see that the actual writing part of my screenplays is a big editing job - taking the prose in my outline and splitting it up into scene headings, dialogue and description, and polishing the heck out of it from there.

    For the script in question, "Sam Buttle's Great Odysey", I think I had the "first draft" of the actual screenplay done in 3 days, which meant I evolved the outline prose into screenplay format at about 40 pages a day. Then, as per my norm, I followed up with about 4-5 detailed read-throughs before anybody got a chance to even know it existed, let alone read it.

    Anyway, for me, this method works. I would really HATE to do it any other way, and I do have experience trying that:

    Around 1985, as an excruciatingly naive young writer, I launched into a novel from a blank page one. I used on an old, dedicated word processing machine - so, not on a typewriter but not nearly as good as our modern PC software, either.

    I produced 100 or so pages in a month or so, before I got entirely and irretrievably lost and quit in disgust.

    It wasn't until I got the writing bug anew, some 20 years later, which was in the screenplay format of storytelling, that I realized I had to come up with some other way to organize myself. That meant outlining everything but the kitchen sink BEFORE starting the actual screenplay document.

    I didn't intend to deflect this thread into an "Outlining or Not" topic, but I figured I had to explain my "screenplay in 3-4 days" claim made at the beginning.

    That, and the factors that others have mentioned here, certainly makes two-week spec productivity possible. And if you're starting out with a full treatment or bible, written by others, it's almost an expected norm in the business.

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    • #32
      Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

      You can't really award credit to or appoint blame to any of the tools writers use to 'figure out' the story. For every great script written using the extensive outline method there is a great script written that wasn't outlined at all. Same goes for the synopsis and treatment.

      I also like to spend quite some time outlining. You have only 40 - 60 scenes to create a dramatic structure that is unique, compelling, entertaining, and surprising. Each scene playing a part in that structure, in the unfolding of the story. That means you need to know each scene in depth. What function it plays in the structure, where it belongs in the structure, what does the character want in the scene, is their opportunity to use literary tools such as allegory, irony, foreshadow, that you are missing? You have to be very picky with your structure, it is a finite medium. So space is limited.

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      • #33
        Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

        Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
        ...I also like to spend quite some time outlining. You have only 40 - 60 scenes to create a dramatic structure that is unique, compelling, entertaining, and surprising...
        Honestly, I'm going to have to take a course to find out what I'm missing.

        Just kidding; I'm not going to point out something to suggest somebody is doing anything wrong, but this scene count was an interesting metric that jumped out at me.

        I just went through my last five scripts to seek a general average for comparison, but I already knew that I consistently do more than 60 scenes in my average 106-page screenplays. My last five scripts:

        130
        92
        139
        56 (a 60-page short script)
        151

        Yes, I do take advantage of set-up or establishing scenes, so that can add 5-10 or so per script. But neither were these five stories particularly intense fast-paced action tales or anything. I obviously have some sort of antipathy toward long scenes, as my average seems to be over 130 per script.

        I was suspicious of that 92-scene script, until I remembered that there are a number of lengthy CIA conference room type of scenes. But even those scenes are broken up with LATER here and there, to move things along.

        So how about others, here? Have any of you tracked such trends? Do you share my concerns about long scenes impacting the pacing or being indicative of long, talking-heads sequences?

        Again, this isn't to pick a fight or establish another infernal rule that all the new writers have to follow! it's just that this is the first time I'd noticed this metric referred to as if it's potentially some sort of average, gleaned from some master seminar somewhere.

        Incidentally, the only reason I am even aware about # of scenes in my own stuff is that I copy a scene heading report into Excel, where I can determine how many pages each scene is. I do this after I finish the first draft, so that means I don't let it concern me too much as I'm writing the beast itself.

        Anyway, in the results I like to see lots of 1's and 2's, and as few 3's and 4's as possible. Any 5's or 6's call out to me "Danger, danger Will Robinson!"

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        • #34
          Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

          So, do you think 130 scenes in a standard 1hr 45 min feature is the norm or an outlier? Your average scene is less than one page. Features often have some scenes that go on for a few pages.

          No one is tracking any trends. I have heard Hollywood big wigs, namely Frances Ford Coppala describe their approach to scriptwriting features as 60 scenes that avg. two pages in length. Of course you go under or you go over, it's not a steadfast rule. Just an approach to take, that's all.

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          • #35
            Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

            i try not to think about numbers when i'm trying to write words. but that may be a reason i have not gotten too far, in fact not far at all, in the screenwriting endeavor. i was never good at math, anyway.

            it takes me a while to write a grocery list where i won't forget anything...then i lose the first list somewhere on the way to the store, run into a buddy and yak about college football etc for a bit, get back home with not all of what was needed, head out again. repeat.

            how someone can write a solid story with layers and the stuff that can grab a reader by the neck and not let go in ten days is an amazement to me.

            i can write forty pages between breakfast and lunch when the sun is especially shining on me, but only a few pages will survive the writing process. but they get my few brain cells engaged and with a match also will get the kindling going in the woodstove soon when cold weather comes. fall and winter is indeed good writing weather. get busy this time of year. need a little inspiration, go to your library or phone or whatever and read the short piece about Hemingway's remarks about being in your warm cabin with coyotes outside in the cold.

            ...i don't think he wrote that in ten days, but maybe he did.

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            • #36
              Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

              You can't do everything in one pass. You may do a pass enriching character, or a pass strengthening plot, you may do one to make setting have a more active role in the story. Eventually you should do one for the economies of the script. How long is it? How many scenes are there? Can any be cut? Do I need to add any?

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              • #37
                Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

                I basically learned screenplay formatting from the production draft script that I found online of my favorite movie, 1995's Twelve Monkeys (David and Janet Peoples)
                It was certainly an inspired way to learn, and even yielded my avatar - in case you've all been head-scratching about it. As well, 9 years on, I can say that education and influence is likely my excuse for my stuff looking so old-school.

                Anyway, it's interesting to note that their 126 page script had 170 scenes.

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                • #38
                  Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

                  "Unforgiven" 27,123 words. 10,493 of those words made up the dialogue. 114 scenes in 119 pages.
                  TRIAL FORUMS

                  ​
                  ​

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                  • #39
                    Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

                    "Ace Ventura Pet Detective" 17,965 words. 7,574 are dialogue. 132 scenes in 88 pages.
                    TRIAL FORUMS

                    ​
                    ​

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                    • #40
                      Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

                      Originally posted by Mark Somers View Post
                      "Unforgiven" 27,123 words. 10,493 of those words made up the dialogue. 114 scenes in 119 pages.
                      Same guy who wrote Twelve Monkeys, but had more internal/talky/horseback riding scenes, along with two long shootout scenes as I recall. Great movie. Also in my Top 10, along with Monkeys.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

                        So in twelve monkeys when Cole seeks out Pitt's character at the Father's mansion and there's a few mini slugs that would read Mansion - Kitchen or Mansion - Staircase or Mansion - Dining room. You are counting all of them as their own scene, and I am counting Cole seeking out Jeffrey at the father's mansion as one scene. Every time you encounter an intercut between two scenes you are counting each slug as its own scene. You may intercut six times between two scenes is that then two scenes or six scenes?

                        When you say Twelve Monkeys had 170 scenes that means you counted 170 slugs in a script. To me not every slug represents its own scene, some are just part of a master scene.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

                          a lot of numbers in the last post but what i came up with in the tally-

                          10 (in the header)
                          12
                          1
                          2
                          6
                          2 again
                          2 again
                          6 again
                          12 again
                          170
                          170 again

                          -anyway, may not have gotten that right, and i was gonna add the numbers up but got bored. actually i kept messing up adding them up. i ended up with pi once, then it was the age of this old famous Bible dude way back when and next the total yardage clemson had in last year's national championship game win (go ACC) against alabama. i'll bow out of this thread now.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

                            Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                            So in twelve monkeys when Cole seeks out Pitt's character at the Father's mansion and there's a few mini slugs that would read Mansion - Kitchen or Mansion - Staircase or Mansion - Dining room. You are counting all of them as their own scene, and I am counting Cole seeking out Jeffrey at the father's mansion as one scene. Every time you encounter an intercut between two scenes you are counting each slug as its own scene. You may intercut six times between two scenes is that then two scenes or six scenes?

                            When you say Twelve Monkeys had 170 scenes that means you counted 170 slugs in a script. To me not every slug represents its own scene, some are just part of a master scene.
                            That was throwing me off too. A scene to me doesn't end if the characters happen to enter a new location.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

                              I'm confused. Are you folks working from the same production draft of the script that I am? (It's easily found online)

                              Here's the Excel doc I use to determine scenes and scene lengths - it's the same Excel template that I use on my own scripts, but in this case the content is the wonderful piece by David Peoples and his wife, Janet.

                              The "# Pages" drop-down list to the right is the one that I look for to make sure there aren't problems. The 0's in that list are a bit of a bug in my calculations, but they refer to scenes that are less than one page in length, and of course a tiny scene that starts at the bottom of one page and extends to the top 1/5 of the next page shows as 2 pages, so that's a bit wrong, too. But on the whole, the metric does the job I want it to do.

                              Enjoy!

                              http://www.catconsulting.ca/stevegar...scenecount.xls

                              (If you want to use this template, go ahead. You'll have to figure out how to get the page numbers in column 2. I write my scripts in WinWord so it's easy - a table of contents code. Not sure if you can do this in any other program.)

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Writing a script in 10 days?

                                Originally posted by TheConnorNoden View Post
                                That was throwing me off too. A scene to me doesn't end if the characters happen to enter a new location.
                                When one responds to an InkTip lead for "low-budget contained scripts", a "location" would mean (in the 12 Monkeys case) the mansion, but the individual rooms are still scenes that require moving the camera to and fro and setting up lights, mikes, etc.

                                Am I right? I'm unproduced, so what do I know.

                                Anyway, for the big Cole-Jeffrey chase scene described, it could be written as a SERIES OF SHOTS in the spec, but it would have to be written out with proper INT slug lines for the shooting script.

                                Yes, I am counting those as "scenes".

                                Perhaps, stepping back, 40-60 "locations" is what should have been talked about.

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