Producing a Short - Advice Needed

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  • #16
    Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

    Klazart:
    thanks so much for sharing our experiences. what an amazing journey. if you're into sharing, i'd love to see the finished short. i understand if you don't want to. or if you ever need people to show their support, let me know i'd like to help.

    your journey is actually very inspiring and encouraging. this is very informative and helps put things into perspective and allows me to better manage my expectations.

    thank you, docgonzo for your insights as well. i will take this opportunity to practice shooting some scenes on my ipnone this summer to gain experience. i've found some editing apps that i've downloaded. yes, i can see how developing a process to plan and shoot would be valuable lessons to get down in order to plan something more ambitious.

    researching apps now.

    i've taken a couple of Masterclasses and they're really good. Ron Howard literally takes one of his scenes from Frost/Nixon and shoots it like he did the original. it's hours upon hours of set ups with two cameras. he goes through the gambit-- close ups, med shots, wide shots, from multiple angles, character reaction shots, reverse shots, shots with varying number of characters in frame single, twos, threes. he goes through blocking the characters and rehearsal. tracking with the characters. using the lighting from a window. it was all very fascinating. it's really incredible.

    Jodi Foster's Masterclass was also on directing as well. i found the story boarding process especially interesting and can see immediately the value and necessity of story boarding and creating your shot list in a notebook. it really felt a style i could easily adapt. this is all very exciting, so it looks like the best way to go is start practicing.

    since taking the MasterClasses i look a movies in a totally new light.

    my next MasterClass is the Hans Zimmer one on scoring films.

    i also have a book called cinematic storytelling: the 100 most powerful film conventions every filmmaker must know. it looks pretty insightful.

    thank you, everyone, for offering your guidance and sharing your experiences. really great stuff.

    FA4
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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    • #17
      Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

      Thanks finalact4. I'll be happy to share the short once it's completed. It's been a struggle and probably will continue to be for a while longer at least. But I am learning a lot along the way.

      It's great that you are doing the masterclasses. They definitely cover the basics and will help you to avoid silly mistakes. But ultimately if you want to be a director long-term then you have to treat it the same way you studied screenwriting. Practice, study the craft and hone your skills.

      Wish you the best of luck in your endeavor!

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      • #18
        Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

        Hi FinalAct4-

        Here is my humble advice:

        Make the short, but do not expect ANYTHING out of it, besides having the time of your life.

        Short films don't mean much anymore, since technology is so cheap, anybody and their next door neighbor make features. And even those go nowhere.

        So, if you want to make a short, take it as a pure personal exercise. Besides, it's amazingly exhilarating. It will be your greatest high.

        I've been a sound and picture editor for the past 20 years, I've worked in dozens and dozen studio features, so, no, I just didn't fall off the turnip truck, you can trust I've direct experience of what's going on here in Hollywood.

        I finally directed (and wrote and cut) my first feature, and yet, even though I have 2 Oscar winners in my crew, I still haven't been able to show it to any manager or agent or producer.

        Assistants delete emails when they don't recognize a name. (Ahhshut up. This is what I choose to tell myself. I know, I'm delusional. Haha. Very likely it's because it sucks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTSqNVGGdTQ)

        Haven't sent it to any reputable festivals because it's a waste of money and screening at the Podunk film festival means nothing here in Hollywood. It's actually detrimental.

        And that's all.

        So, go ahead. Make your day.

        Good luck.

        (let me know if I can help you)

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

          Klazart:
          thank you for the well wishes and absolutely, i would love to see your short when it's done.

          i'm reading this amazing book called Cinematic Storytelling: The 100 Most Powerful Conventions Every Filmmaker must know by Jennifer Van Sijll, and it's really opening my eyes to the possibilities of film making in a visual way without dialogue. it will change the way i write. i do already write with a style toward direction, but this will easily take me to the next level.

          it's written for the screenwriter. it shows the non-verbal shots, the technique, the script page, the dramatic value, film examples and other films. what's amazing it that it is already on the page.

          for anyone interested in elevating their writing, i highly recommend this book.


          Originally posted by vstm10 View Post
          Hi FinalAct4-

          Here is my humble advice:

          Make the short, but do not expect ANYTHING out of it, besides having the time of your life.

          Short films don't mean much anymore, since technology is so cheap, anybody and their next door neighbor make features. And even those go nowhere.

          So, if you want to make a short, take it as a pure personal exercise. Besides, it's amazingly exhilarating. It will be your greatest high.

          I've been a sound and picture editor for the past 20 years, I've worked in dozens and dozen studio features, so, no, I just didn't fall off the turnip truck, you can trust I've direct experience of what's going on here in Hollywood.

          I finally directed (and wrote and cut) my first feature, and yet, even though I have 2 Oscar winners in my crew, I still haven't been able to show it to any manager or agent or producer.

          Assistants delete emails when they don't recognize a name. (Ahhshut up. This is what I choose to tell myself. I know, I'm delusional. Haha. Very likely it's because it sucks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTSqNVGGdTQ)

          Haven't sent it to any reputable festivals because it's a waste of money and screening at the Podunk film festival means nothing here in Hollywood. It's actually detrimental.

          And that's all.

          So, go ahead. Make your day.

          Good luck.

          (let me know if I can help you)
          is this the trailer for your feature? it's gorgeous. i would so pay to see this. oh, actually it's on Amazon Prime-- i will watch it tonight. i love the contrast of the lighting and the wide night shot of the burning body on the pier with the lights running into on the z-axis. it's beautiful. your lighting choices are provocative and i love the silhouette of the body on the slab. all throughout you use light well.

          why not Cannes? i mean, i do know how outrageously expensive that place that is, but this looks amazing. you should definitely put it in a festival. of course, you know more about it than i, i'm like Jon Snow, i know nothing. your cast looks amazing, too.

          are you LDF? if so, i just sent you an email.

          thank you for the offer to answer questions. i will definitely reach out.

          i'm actually going to be in Scandinavia in a couple of weeks, and though i don't have a camera, i do have my iphone and i'll be in Oslo, Helsinki, Stockholm, and Copenhagen. i'd like to practice location (city and landscape) shots, so do you have any advice on how to approach that or techniques that i could work on. i haven't yet found an app that works on "filming" but did download several for editing, which i will have to learn, again, i am Jon Snow. haha.

          you're very talented and i wish you huge success. if there's anything i can do to support your work please let me know. do you have a twitter handle?

          thank you for the advice. i will certainly take it to heart.

          FA4

          PS: i do know a producer, if you'd like me to ask if he'll take a look at your trailer? i know he's done film and has a pilot he produced that he's trying to get set up. but i don't know if he can help or not. . you never know. he managed me for a bit.
          Last edited by finalact4; 05-22-2019, 09:19 AM.
          "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

            I haven't read all these posts, but here's my 2 cents.
            It's really hard to make movies, despite when you read in Rebel Without a Crew.
            This is why that other poster posted This is John.
            This is John is a simple, one-actor movie basically thought up in one frustrated afternoon and yes, it was made for $3 and it got into Sundance and kicked off the Duplass Brothers' career.

            I totally get what you're saying. You want to film your big, epic movie.

            But starting on a big, epic movie needs money and funding and people who believe in you. And because making a film is so hard and so much more work than you realize (but also fun and rewarding) it's best to start with something small.

            If you have zero film experience, you need tons of money to pay people to do this for you. A good DP can cost thousands of dollars. All your post will cost even more, unless you're as seasoned an editor as you are a screenwriter you'll likely have to pay someone. I was once quoted $8000 to edit an 8 minute short. I obviously didn't go with that guy. This is why it's important to work with your friends.

            This is why people always advise that if you want to do it, DO IT. But start small. Like Rodriguez says: Start with the resources you have. Actors you know. Sets you have. Crew you know.

            This is John was shot AFTER the Duplass brothers borrowed like $20-30,000 from relatives and businesses to make a feature that flopped. All that money ended up a gigantic learning experience. And that's why they made This is John.

            Rodriguez started out with little films.
            Kat Candler started out with shorts, went to features, returned to shorts and that's when she got into Sundance and that's when her short, Hellion, transformed into a feature starring Juliette Lewis and Aaron Paul.

            Yes, it does seem that Ava Duvernay just jumped in and next thing you know she was making Selma. These stories are rare. You have to be a powerhouse that people believe in enough to give up their free time, weekends, vacations, etc. because they so believe in YOU and they so believe in the story and they KNOW you will get it finished.

            Filmmaking requires a lot more passion than you realize. When it's 106 degrees or 25 and you lose your set and the important prop breaks and your DP is sick and your lead actress has a fever... You gotta have the drive to get it done. And you gotta be the kind of person who can convince all those people to share that drive. Because if they do it for free, they're literally giving up their time and money for you. And if you pay them minimum, they are still sacrificing. You can do it, but you HAVE to be insanely passionate, insanely hard-working and want this more than you want anything else in your life.

            **
            Edited: I had more time and read other posts. Definitely agree with Bono and others.
            And hey, Lisa, if you wanna do it, do it.
            But it's just like that first day you set out to fill 90 pages on Final Draft. You'll stumble a while and practice makes perfect.

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            • #21
              Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

              And this is the complete opposite advice from Robert Rodriguez at Cannes yesterday for his new $7,000 movie... and, of course, he's right.
              He says JUST START. Don't wait til you're passionate.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSpRaUl_lKE

              (But you really need to want it, otherwise you might give up.)
              Last edited by cvolante; 05-23-2019, 11:41 AM. Reason: Because you'd think a writer could spell "Cannes," wouldn't you? GAH.

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              • #22
                Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

                hi cvolante:
                thank you for the thoughtful advice. i'm not really thinking about tackling a feature at this point, but thinking about how to do something that reflects what i write in some way.

                as i thought about the shot of that one page, i suddenly became aware of just how expensive i write. these masterclasses have been very helpful. but i started to think of just all the dead people, the make up, costumes, and garbage. the location. the low angle shot of the little girl's feet as she runs past the camera, the shot of her spinning and the camera spinning around her in the opposite direction, the wide shot, the med shot, the shot to the sky, the shot of a bomber dropping its payload, the ribbon flying loose from her hair-- and the whole scene is like one minute to a minute and a half long. it is very humbling. but really exciting, too.

                i certainly don't want to waste other people's time or money in any way. that would be disrespectful and i'm not that.

                i'm going to start small. use my iphone for a bit, then maybe get a camera, if i'm any good at it. i've thought about this for a while. i keep coming back to it. idk, i'm drawn to the idea to direct something. i don't know how to explain it.
                i want to learn how to pan up, down, sideways. experiment with depth of field. lighting. people. frame composition-- maybe my art background will now come in handy.

                i have been on a set filming, so i understand a little (very little) about production and it looked seriously expensive. the lighting inside and OUTSIDE the window to maintain consistency as they shot throughout the day was something that never occurred to me. the time it takes for two actors to hit their stride when they've never met before was also something i hadn't considered. the sound boom, the camera(s) and of course all the people it takes to do one scene. reset it, start another take. i know it's a big deal. and even with this knowledge i accept that i will still be completely surprised at how difficult it will be.

                unfortunately, one of the things people love about my writing is the very thing that is the most difficult, and expensive for me to do myself. i'll just have to learn to compensate for that. i'll have to find ways to shoot some things on my own. or at least plan it that way. i'll have to write something more approachable.

                so now i'm learning more about the cinematic approach to non-verbal storytelling. it's really fascinating. dramatic. and powerful. the importance of things i've seen, but did not realize the psychological impact is eye-opening. i'm seeing films in a new, more enlightened way. now i have to watch a film at least twice. one for enjoyment, one to analyze what i love about it.

                ii know i have to take the time to learn and practice, practice, practice. i may as well start gettin' at it, you know. i'm not sure how successful i will be, but i'm determined to try. to learn.

                did you check out the trailer that vstm10 posted? it's beautiful.

                i didn't mean to come off as so arrogant that i thought i can do this now. i'm just really excited about the opportunity.

                i'm a single mom. when i started writing i knew i couldn't do it all. i knew in order to sustain the things that were important to me, i'd have to sacrifice... and i did. i knew this is what i wanted. i worked a full time job, i wrote every day for four hours, i took my daughter to all her sporting events, i worked out, but i gave up any type of dating or relationship because i knew, and no disrespect intended here, that a man would never understand my drive to succeed. for ten years i did that. and when i say absolutely no dating, i mean it.

                most men just don't understand a woman with drive, and they'd be like, "oh, this is a nice hobby," or "oh, you really meant that you write every day from 8-midnight?" or "can't you take a break?" and it's like, no, i can't. so i refused to put myself in a position that could sabotage my dream. so i do understand the passion part, the dedication part and the sacrifice part. i just don't know the, "do i have it part." when it comes to directing ability. but i think i can do it.

                writing will always be first. and i honestly don't know if i can do both-- write and direct. we'll find out over the next few years i guess.

                i really appreciate everyone's guidance and advice. it's really good to know you have people willing to offer help without calling you a dumb-**** for even thinking this might be something worthy to tackle.

                and if anyone is shooting in the North Dallas area and they need an extra set of hands, call on me. if i can get there, i'd love to help and love to get the experience on set. i know there's a women in flim here, so i'm looking to get into that somehow at some point.

                thanks for all the support!
                FA4
                "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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                • #23
                  Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

                  Originally posted by cvolante View Post
                  And this is the complete opposite advice from Robert Rodriguez at Canens yesterday for his new $7,000 movie... and, of course, he's right.
                  He says JUST START. Don't wait til you're passionate.
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSpRaUl_lKE

                  (But you really need to want it, otherwise you might give up.)
                  thanks for this. i've never given up on anything. haha. i'm German and definitely stubborn that way. probably not a great trait to have all the time, but hey, i be me.

                  i so wanted to go to Cannes this year. i started the research too late, though and it's an incredible undertaking to go as a "visitor." this was where ignorance is a problem. i can't complain because i'm going to scandinavia instead. maybe next year. we'll see. you only have like 4 weeks in march, i think, where you can apply for the cinema membership to help get you in, because you're considered "the general public" whic it's closed to, because it's a trade market that looks for buyers for distribution.

                  i had wanted to do the directors fortnight. and see all these amazing films and listen to the panels of the cast and directors. watched the Tarantino one yesterday.

                  thanks for sharing this, i'm such a sap, got all emotional when he said, "just start." i do however, disagree with him on the card alone thing. yikes! i need a script. haha.

                  i was thinking it was like Austin. nope. it's not.

                  thanks again, cvolante.

                  you know, i actually might be able to tackle on of the scenes in my rom-com. something to ponder.
                  "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

                    I have three produced shorts and three more currently in production - All done without my financial assistance. Yes sir, the good stuff - Other people's money...The true acid test (also read not vanity projects).

                    I've enjoyed my experience and lessons learned with shorts, but now feel it's time for me to focus my efforts on my NINE completed features and a pilot.

                    But hey, I'm just a peewee wannabe out here in the wilderness howling at the moon. In joking with someone here on DDP, I mentioned I'd written so much spec stuff over the past 8 years, I didn't know if I needed an agent, a manager, a lawyer OR an intervention?
                    Last edited by x32792; 05-23-2019, 09:54 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

                      Holy f*ck.

                      "CANNES"
                      JFC.

                      Spelling.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

                        Originally posted by cvolante View Post
                        Holy f*ck.

                        "CANNES"
                        JFC.

                        Spelling.
                        ha! i didn't even notice.
                        "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

                          Originally posted by cvolante View Post
                          And this is the complete opposite advice from Robert Rodriguez at Cannes yesterday for his new $7,000 movie... and, of course, he's right.
                          He says JUST START. Don't wait til you're passionate.
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSpRaUl_lKE

                          (But you really need to want it, otherwise you might give up.)
                          I love RR and I did not know he did this! I'm so out of touch!

                          He's always inspiring.

                          He tells the best story in I think Spy Kid 2 DVD commentary about how we just keep doing things because that's the way we did them before.

                          He talks about cooking a ham in the oven story and how he asks his mother why she cuts off the sides... and she says because my mom did it... then he asks his grandmother why she did it and she said because her mom did it... then you ask the great-grandmother why she cut off the sides of the ham and she says because my oven was too small.

                          It wasn't exactly told that way, but it was all about how we do things in film (and in real life) only because that's how they were first done. I always thought it was crazy brilliant in every way.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Producing a Short - Advice Needed

                            Originally posted by Bono View Post

                            He talks about cooking a ham in the oven story and how he asks his mother why she cuts off the sides... and she says because my mom did it... then he asks his grandmother why she did it and she said because her mom did it... then you ask the great-grandmother why she cut off the sides of the ham and she says because my oven was too small.
                            That is SO funny because my grandma had a story like that about her grandmother making bread... some random weird thing they did with cutting it that had no real reason behind it.


                            ***
                            I still hold on to the idea that you MUST be incredibly passionate about it. Someone was just talking about working for someone else on someone else's idea. You have to love it enough to give up all your time and energy on it and then someone else has control over whether THEY love it enough to pitch it, get locations, get money, etc.

                            I agree that you shouldn't sit around waiting for INSPIRATION. Open a new file and start writing, turn on the camera and start filming. That's all good.
                            But I think if you're going to spend your kid's college tuition money on a movie and ask others to devote their lives and miss dinner and family celebrations, you'd better all love the heck out of it and know in your bones that the story MUST be told and is insanely cool and vitally important.

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