Click here for Done Deal Pro home page

Done Deal Pro Home Page

Loading

Go Back   Done Deal Pro Forums > General > Sites, Services, Software, & Supplies
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-21-2017, 03:11 PM   #31
SundownInRetreat
Member
 
SundownInRetreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,892
Default Re: Blacklist Experience #1239932

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Rodriguez View Post
I’m a little confused by the “never will be” comment but maybe that’s based on an assumption about my attitude. If a person think’s they’re already at a certain level, it’s hard to improve. Trust me. I think I have a lot to improve upon. A ton.
'The never will be' comment was meant to be taken as perspective. The truth is that most of us 'never will be' good enough to be top tier at anything – comedy, sport, music etc – and writing is no different.

I am just trying to make it clear just how tough it is – and if you understand that then, hopefully, you won't take the BL scoring to heart so much. The chances of you being good enough to write professionally are as next-to-impossible as the chances of a football-loving kid playing for Manchester United. It takes more than being 'really good' compared to your friends, or your writing group, you need to be really good by pro-standards. Ie: English Premier League, NFL, NBA.

So right now you're either not good enough and never will be or you're just not good enough at the moment - and there is no shame in either because, as I said, 99.999% are not good enough to ever make it. (Hence only an absolute moron would think I attacked you). Whether you're only not good enough right now remains to be seen but the only way you'll get to where you want to go is if you stop blaming the Black List, stop blaming the readers and stop permutating as to how your script was erroneously misunderstood/overlooked. Instead, take ownership and take stock of just how good you actually have to be to make it.



Quote:
As for the bitterness, I’ll reflect on that. I don’t think I have a fantastic script. I don’t think the readers didn’t “get it”. I just know that based on the coverage you get, it’s hard to tell what exactly the readers thought of it. The coverage is cursory. And I even had a hard time agreeing with some of the strengths. So it was a confusing experience for me.
I hope you do reflect on that as that was my only aim. That way you'll have a chance of seeing what I did – the excuses, the bemoaning, the 'not my fault'ery. There's a ton of threads whining about TBL giving them low scores but a conspicuous lack of acceptance despite the apparent acknowledgement that only 0.001% are good enough writers. As Americans like to say: 'do the math'. Only 99.999% are good enough yet 99.999% insist it means everyone else.

As has been said many times in many BL threads, ignore the coverage. All that matters is the score. They may fluff things up to let you down gently or writers misinterpret their comments for positives - eg: 'original' doesn't necessarily mean 'good' and 'funny' doesn't mean everything else about your script and writing is great - so just focus on the score.

Having said that, your feedback was clear: undeveloped, one-dimensional and voice-less characters, lack of connectivity between characters and plot, on-the-nose dialogue, heavy-handed exposition and weak structure. I mean, these are the Prime List of cardinal sins.

But before you slit your wrists, you scored 6/7 which tells us you can write to a fair degree and you also got feedback that backs this up by saying the foundations are there to be a strong sample (however I would take that with a pinch of salt, just to be on the safe side. in case it's the final slice of bread in a shit sandwich). And this is why I came back off-grid to spend an hour writing to you. Do you want to be a nearly-man, good but not good enough, looking elsewhere except inside himself or do you want the Simon Cowell bluntness that stings like hell but forces you to be honest with yourself and which gives you the best chance of pushing yourself to the requisite level? Do you want to be 'a good writer' in the amateur sense - like what your Aunty Mavis would say about you to her friends at the bridge club, but not in the professional sense, or do you want to be 'a good writer' - like when Ridley Scott is having lunch with the execs at Fox?


Quote:
I agree that my attitude about the scoring system is poor. I never paid for a competition and the only thing I put stock in was the lowest possible number I could get that would garner attention. I read a lot of reviews by people who scored lower and they said the script just sat there. I can’t really afford that. So my goal was 8.
I am glad you see your attitude was poor. You will only improve by believing this to be so. Yes, most people's scripts just sit there – but that goes for those who get 8s and 9s as well. Most scripts aren't bought and most signed-up writers don't get anywhere, either. That's just the reality of the business: it's all-but impossible to be good enough to make it and even if you are, it's all-but impossible to make a sale let alone a career. We're talking lottery-style odds. Even so, give me a read and hosting for a month rather than the one-shot of a competition.




Quote:
I think the overall message of your reply is that I should always be looking to self-improve and make no excuses for my failures, especially at the cost of others.
Exactly.


Quote:
Again, thanks for taking the time to read what I wrote, offer the criticism, and inspire me to be honest with myself.
You're welcome. I guarantee you will come out of it for the better: either quitting because you can't write any better or can't cope with the lottery-style odds - or by raising your game and getting that 8.
__________________
Gotta Let You Go

I gotta let you go...

'Cause now you've got to fly
(Fly high)
Fly to the angels
Heaven awaits your heart
And flowers bloom in your name
SundownInRetreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2017, 08:12 PM   #32
StoryWriter
Member
 
StoryWriter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,089
Default Re: Blacklist Experience #1239932

Sorry, but every set of comments I've seen posted from The Black List are basically bullsh*t. It's pablum, designed to make it sound like you might kind-of, just about, sort of, maybe make it, with a polish, another month's fee to host it and another paid review. Who knows, you might make that "6" a "7", or even an "8" this time! Wouldn't that be dandy? Doesn't this make more sense than spending a dollar for the $120 million lottery?

In the meantime you read tortured comments like: "Could be made into a successful small budget picture if the right person with a keen interest in vulture vomit, at a specialized production company, went to bat for it."

And no, I'm not a bitter former customer with an ax to grind. This has the stench of scam and hopelessness from miles away, so I've never gone near it.

Studios and production companies have carefully erected barriers to stop the barbarians at their gates. Why would they want to go sifting through a site that lists scripts by these same barbarians, just because the barbarians paid to be listed?
__________________
"I just couldn't live in a world without me."
StoryWriter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2017, 03:41 PM   #33
SundownInRetreat
Member
 
SundownInRetreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,892
Default Re: Blacklist Experience #1239932

You say you're not bitter but you've never tried TBL and clearly haven't done even basic research yet you're insisting it's a seedy scam, even going so far as to put words in their mouths to fit the snake-oil salesman narrative you wish to believe. Dangling the seductive carrot of 'maybe make it with a polish and another review' is totally at odds with the majority who's experience is being slaughtered - hence all the bruised egos carping in various BL threads. If what you say was true then they'd be hanging on to those rays of hope instead of the reality which is: 'the reader said it was fun/original/unique yet they gave me a 5, WTF?' (as per the OP). They've also never said it's better than the lottery.

What they have said - countless times - and stated it on their website - is that if you're not getting the results you want then stop paying in. But hey, that flies in the face of TBL being hucksters so, yeah, let's conveniently forget that. And whilst we're at it we'll forget the successes that have come through TBL, too - some of which are DDP'ers. True, those successes are a fraction of overall submissions but that's the same as competitions or soliciting agents and prodcos.
__________________
Gotta Let You Go

I gotta let you go...

'Cause now you've got to fly
(Fly high)
Fly to the angels
Heaven awaits your heart
And flowers bloom in your name

Last edited by SundownInRetreat : 06-25-2017 at 12:46 PM.
SundownInRetreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 01:56 AM   #34
Centos
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,913
Default Re: Blacklist Experience #1239932

Quote:
Originally Posted by SundownInRetreat View Post
You say you're not bitter but you've never tried TBL and clearly haven't done even basic research yet you're insisting it's a seedy scam, even going so far as to put words in their mouths to fit the snake-oil salesman narrative you wish to believe. Dangling the seductive carrot of 'maybe make it with a polish and another review' is totally at odds with the majority who's experience is being slaughtered - hence all the bruised egos carping in various BL threads. If what you say was true then they'd be hanging on to those rays of hope instead of the reality which is: 'the reader said it was fun/original/unique yet they gave me a 5, WTF?' (as per the OP). They've also never said it's better than the lottery.

What they have said - countless times - and stated it on their website - is that if you're not getting the results you want then stop paying in. But hey, that flies in the face of TBL being hucksters so, yeah, let's conveniently forget that. And whilst we're at it we'll forget the successes that have come through TBL, too - some of which are DDP'ers. True, those successes are a fraction of overall submissions but that's the same as competitions or soliciting agents and prodcos.
Okay, so you've done some research ... can you give me some sample stories of successes using Blacklist? If this was the way to go there should be quite a few success stories by now. As for the reviews ... I've seen some of them (posted here) and Storywriter pretty much has it right on. Vague, nothing reviews that are just about useless, except to encourage you to keep coming back. And wasn't it Blacklist that was hiring reviewers via Craigslist? (Or was that a rumor? I can't remember anymore.)

Personally, my main issue with Blacklist is that they monopolize this forum, which used to be one of my favorites before they showed up. Why don't they invest in their own forum so their own users can ramble on endlessly about making "sixes into sevens or sevens or eights" ... or whatever -- none of which seems to be selling any scripts.

As for me I would be more than happy to "unbitter" myself about Blacklist if they could just move on out of here and into their own digs.
__________________
STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.
Centos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 11:06 PM   #35
StoryWriter
Member
 
StoryWriter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,089
Default Re: Blacklist Experience #1239932

In my own bitter way, I really don't like the way Blacklist conflates what was the real Blacklist, with the huckster "pay for play" site. They are same thing in the sense that a man-eating lion, is the same thing as a stray, tabby kitten, because, as you know, they're both cats.

There's no shortcuts. You sell on talent, hard work, persistence and a hell of a lot of luck. (Did I mention talent?)

Blacklist: At least two months listing (recommended) -- At least two paid evaluations (also recommended) -- $200.

For $100, send me a hard copy of your script. I'll read it twice, say you got an "8", write some happy, happy horsh##, about how it could sell to "somebody" and throw it away for you.

Both options get the same results. One is half the price.
__________________
"I just couldn't live in a world without me."
StoryWriter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 07:00 AM   #36
kintnerboy
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,488
Default Re: Blacklist Experience #1239932

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoryWriter View Post
For $100, send me a hard copy of your script. I'll read it twice, say you got an "8", write some happy, happy horsh##, about how it could sell to "somebody" and throw it away for you.

Both options get the same results. One is half the price.
Really? Because my 8's have gotten me a dozen phone calls with agents, managers, producers and directors in NY and LA. And I didn't have to query a single one of them, which means my time is spent writing.

Can you do that for me? Because I'll send you the $100 right now.

I've been resisting the urge to post in this thread, because the complaints have the stink of bitter, failed writer all over them and therefore are immune to reasoning, but for anyone else following along at home, this is a long game and there never have been and never will be any quick results.

Also, there is absolutely no shame in spending a little bit of money to promote your work, IF you have the money to spare, and IF you are getting some kind of return on it within a reasonable period of time.

Could you imagine how absurd it would be to hear entrepreneurs sitting around complaining that the public relations and advertising industries were 'scams' that prey on small businesses owners?
kintnerboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 07:52 AM   #37
Friday
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 494
Default Re: Blacklist Experience #1239932

Quote:
Originally Posted by kintnerboy View Post
Really? Because my 8's have gotten me a dozen phone calls with agents, managers, producers and directors in NY and LA. And I didn't have to query a single one of them, which means my time is spent writing.

Can you do that for me? Because I'll send you the $100 right now.

I've been resisting the urge to post in this thread, because the complaints have the stink of bitter, failed writer all over them and therefore are immune to reasoning, but for anyone else following along at home, this is a long game and there never have been and never will be any quick results.

Also, there is absolutely no shame in spending a little bit of money to promote your work, IF you have the money to spare, and IF you are getting some kind of return on it within a reasonable period of time.

Could you imagine how absurd it would be to hear entrepreneurs sitting around complaining that the public relations and advertising industries were 'scams' that prey on small businesses owners?
Since you're experienced with the Blacklist, I was wondering if you could point out how you could get the most benefit from it. So, you upload a script and then buy 2 evaluations....then, if it scores high, it gets read by whoever downloads the script? I read the FAQ, but wasn't quite sure how it all works. I am more familiar with the annual list, but haven't really checked out the pay site, even though I see a lot of threads about the pay site. For those who have not used the site, we're not as familiar with all the ins and outs of it. How do you get read on the site? If you get anything less than an 8, do you just pull your script?
Friday is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 09:30 AM   #38
StoryWriter
Member
 
StoryWriter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,089
Default Re: Blacklist Experience #1239932

Quote:
Originally Posted by kintnerboy View Post
Really? Because my 8's have gotten me a dozen phone calls with agents, managers, producers and directors in NY and LA. And I didn't have to query a single one of them, which means my time is spent writing.

Can you do that for me? Because I'll send you the $100 right now.
Blacklist is not "doing it for you" either. I'm pretty sure you've been writing and marketing your scripts long before the "pay-for-play" Blacklist ever existed. (Correct me, if I'm wrong.) You've been learning through the years. Blacklist didn't give you that education.

For every one of "you" on Blacklist, there's probably at least 500 Joe "Boom Boom" Whizbangs getting fleeced.

Joe went to Obscure Communtity College, where Professor Bob taught Creative Writing and looked at Joe's stuff and said: "Wow -- you is good!" So now Joe thinks he can write. Hell -- why not do a screenplay and make the big bucks?

He writes one and judges it splendid. But for some reason, the ten spelling mistakes and grammatical errors, on the first page, are kind of a turn off to anyone he can rope into reading it. Not to worry -- Blacklist to the rescue.

For the low price of not eating for a week, he can list his gem and have a "pro" evaluate it for him. Such a bargain. He doesn't get a very high rating, but does get some mighty encouraging cooing from the "pro". "Wow, maybe if I can correct three or four of those glaring spelling mistakes, I can get a higher number, when I re-up for a month and get another "pro" to read it", he thinks. (He even thinks with run-on sentences.) So he does and "ka-ching" Blacklist makes some more money off of Joe "Boom Boom" (Sucker) Whizbang.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Blacklist is a money-making business, right? I only ask because some people, here, seem to think it's the freakin' "Benevolent Aid Society", that only decided to help screenwriters after there weren't any more hungry children to feed or stray kittens to rescue.

Good luck with your writing, however you sell it.

But my half-price offer still stands for anyone interested.
__________________
"I just couldn't live in a world without me."
StoryWriter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 10:43 AM   #39
kintnerboy
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,488
Default Re: Blacklist Experience #1239932

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friday View Post
So, you upload a script and then buy 2 evaluations....then, if it scores high, it gets read by whoever downloads the script? I read the FAQ, but wasn't quite sure how it all works. I am more familiar with the annual list, but haven't really checked out the pay site, even though I see a lot of threads about the pay site. For those who have not used the site, we're not as familiar with all the ins and outs of it. How do you get read on the site? If you get anything less than an 8, do you just pull your script?
I uploaded the script and bought ONE evaluation. It got an 8, which entitled me to 2 months free hosting and 2 free evaluations, which I took advantage of.

One of the free evaluations came back as an 8, which entitled me to another 2 months hosting and 2 more free evaluations.

I just got off the phone with someone 5 minutes ago who downloaded the script last December and finally got around to reading it. Things take time.

This is my third script I've uploaded to the BL. For the first two, I uploaded them and purchased 2 evaluations (this was back when they were $50).

Both scripts got 7's and almost no interest from anyone and I pulled them down after a month or two. There is no sense spending money when you're not getting results.

It's easy to fall into the mental trap of thinking that this is all a crap shoot. The truth is, it's just really really really hard to execute fresh ideas.

When people ask "Where are all the Black List success stories?", you have to remember that there are only 3-4 new writers breaking in via spec in the entire world every year.

It's easier to just ask where are ANY success stories.
kintnerboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 11:13 AM   #40
AnconRanger
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 554
Default Re: Blacklist Experience #1239932

all interesting. i've never used the blacklist and know very little about it. so i probably shouldn't comment but of course will anyway.

i've spent money/invested in my writing career. i've paid for feedback a few times (hi bart!) and i found all useful and a good learning experience. i had to wait months and spent a fairly large sum of money for feedback once. was worth every penny. unlike me, he knew the hell what he was talking about and became my mentor and a good friend. starting out, i also paid money once for supposed hollywood access, that was not helpful in any way except i grew up a bit. spending money on pens, pencils, paper, a computer and printer, etc., always a good investment. so is a free library card. invaluable! i guess some things works for some and don't work for others. i do try to steer away from toll roads and shortcuts. i love dirt roads. i just try to keep my old truck running and pointed in the right direction, hopefully. what works, works. sounds like this service works for some and for some it doesn't. very understandable.

Last edited by AnconRanger : 06-28-2017 at 11:23 AM.
AnconRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Done Deal Pro

eXTReMe Tracker