Central Dramatic Argument

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  • #61
    Re: Central Dramatic Argument

    OK, Back On Track:

    I'm not sure if I'm over-thinking, under-thinking or completely off track when it comes to Theme and Central Dramatic Argument.

    Let's say you were hired to write SAW 27, would your Central Dramatic Argument be something simple like Surviving The Traps, or would it be something deeper or more complex?

    For a RomCom, would Searching For True Love be the CDA?
    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue

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    • #62
      Re: Central Dramatic Argument

      Originally posted by christopher jon View Post
      OK, Back On Track:

      I'm not sure if I'm over-thinking, under-thinking or completely off track when it comes to Theme and Central Dramatic Argument.

      Let's say you were hired to write SAW 27, would your Central Dramatic Argument be something simple like Surviving The Traps, or would it be something deeper or more complex?

      For a RomCom, would Searching For True Love be the CDA?
      For a RomCom a good example might be When Harry Met Sally -- with a Central Dramatic Argument of "Can men and women just be friends?"

      That question is explored throughout the entire movie with some scenes/characters saying yes and some saying no.

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      • #63
        Re: Central Dramatic Argument

        Originally posted by Jeff_Shurtleff View Post
        Just so you know, this come's off as you being a kiss a$$ and being very condescending.

        Maybe you were talking about me, BIO, or any other person who doesn't subscribe to your point of view... doesn't mean they're wrong.

        For the record, I agree with a lot of what Bio has been saying.

        Jeff Shurtleff

        Wait -- aren't you the guy who gave up screenwriting?

        You accuse me of a$$ kissing but in the same post my driving point is that worthwhile advice gets lost in (and I quote myself, here) non-essential bickering.

        And what do you do? You start another round of non-essential bickering about a$$-kissing. Classic.

        Do you have anything to say about the topic?
        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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        • #64
          Re: Central Dramatic Argument

          Originally posted by sc111 View Post
          Wait -- aren't you the guy who gave up screenwriting?

          You accuse me of a$$ kissing but in the same post my driving point is that worthwhile advice gets lost in (and I quote myself, here) non-essential bickering.

          And what do you do? You start another round of non-essential bickering about a$$-kissing. Classic.

          Do you have anything to say about the topic?
          Curious, what do you think your post consists of?

          (a) non-essential bickering, or
          (b) on-topic information

          I came back to find 7 pages of posts in this thread. 8 posts are on-topic.

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          • #65
            Re: Central Dramatic Argument

            Let's not get sidetracked again - we've all read the posts and can judge for ourselves what they mean. We can't stop individuals drawing their own conclusions, but just because they cast aspersions doesn't make them true. There's plenty here to learn and remember, and there's no shame in bookmarking it for future reference. Have done the same thing myself.

            So. Can we all please stop with the personal bickering and bollocks? It doesn't become you, and is against forum guidelines.

            Back to topic please.
            sigpic

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            • #66
              Re: Central Dramatic Argument

              Originally posted by iggy View Post
              Curious, what do you think your post consists of?

              (a) non-essential bickering, or
              (b) on-topic information

              I came back to find 7 pages of posts in this thread. 8 posts are on-topic.

              In my most recent post - yes, I was late to the off-topic party so it would have to be (a). But since I was personally accused of the butt kissing I wanted to respond.

              I tried an on-topic post back on page 3, though. Didn't go anywhere.

              However, in response to your on-topic point -- it gets sticky trying to figure out the thematic question/dramatic argument in a produced film. It's more important for the writer to know what it is allowing it to inform scenes, sequences, etc.
              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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              • #67
                Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                Originally posted by christopher jon View Post
                OK, Back On Track:

                I'm not sure if I'm over-thinking, under-thinking or completely off track when it comes to Theme and Central Dramatic Argument.

                Let's say you were hired to write SAW 27, would your Central Dramatic Argument be something simple like Surviving The Traps, or would it be something deeper or more complex?

                For a RomCom, would Searching For True Love be the CDA?
                somewhere in either this thread or the plot point thread craig said the CDA is an assertion that can be argued (which implies there is a thematic question of sorts). sorry, i'm not going to dig back to find it but i'm sure it's there. i think iggy's example explains it very well - at least my understanding of it.
                life happens
                despite a few cracked pots-
                and random sunlight

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                • #68
                  Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                  The Book of Eli is a good example. The theme to that film is undoubtedly faith. The protagonist has faith. The book he protects is about faith. Gary Oldman sees the power in that faith.

                  And even the protag himself is an example of

                  SPOILER

                  Blind faith.

                  And I believe there are a lot of conversations that allude to faith along the way. It's repeated over and over, but not so much that someone's hitting you in the face with a theme hammer.

                  A theme is not the same thing as a moral. So what's the difference? A theme is a question. A moral is an answer.

                  Let your story ask a question so that people can leave the theater discussing the answer.
                  Chicks Who Script podcast

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                  • #69
                    Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                    this is where i sort of diverge em. i think simply saying "faith" would be an example of a bad CDA because it doesn't leave room for interpretation. i'm totally basing this on my own understanding of course. given what craig said here and in his blog, i think for the book of eli, an example of a good CDA would be, for example: can faith exist in a world that doesn't have any? or something along those lines...

                    eta: or, he did say "assertion" so maybe it could be phrased as: faith doesn't exist in the future, then the story sets out to prove that it can and does...? i dunno, just spitballing here.
                    life happens
                    despite a few cracked pots-
                    and random sunlight

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                      This entire thread has its own Central Dramatic Argument.

                      And this thread illustrates that different people can watch the same movie (read the same thread) and come away each with a different Central Dramatic Argument. It has to do with the "baggage" each person brings to the table - how predisposed each person is.
                      "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
                      - Clive Barker, Galilee

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                      • #71
                        Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                        Originally posted by TwoBrad Bradley View Post
                        This entire thread has its own Central Dramatic Argument.

                        And this thread illustrates that different people can watch the same movie (read the same thread) and come away each with a different Central Dramatic Argument. It has to do with the "baggage" each person brings to the table - how predisposed each person is.

                        I agree. That's what I meant about it being "tricky."

                        For example -- in Sally/Harry, I think the central thematic argument was more than "can women and men ever be friends?"

                        Considering it's time - late 1980s - I thought the question was: can love and romance survive/thrive in the post- woman's lib age?

                        The problems of the lead couple and secondary couple were all related to the women not taking the classic passive role in traditional courtship. These were liberated women and as a result it complicated all male-female interactions.

                        But that's what I got from it -- only the writer (Nora Ephrom) knows for sure.
                        Last edited by sc111; 01-22-2012, 03:45 PM.
                        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                          Originally posted by TwoBrad Bradley View Post
                          And this thread illustrates that different people can watch the same movie (read the same thread) and come away each with a different Central Dramatic Argument. It has to do with the "baggage" each person brings to the table - how predisposed each person is.
                          And THAT is the most intelligent response of this thread.

                          You understand character which makes you (I'm guessing) a damn good writer.

                          Wait a minute... did that make me sound like an a$$ kisser?

                          *grin*
                          il faut d'abord durer

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                          • #73
                            Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                            For a RomCom a good example might be When Harry Met Sally -- with a Central Dramatic Argument of "Can men and women just be friends?"
                            Thanks. That actually kinda clicks with me.

                            Starting off with a question or a Central Dramatic Argument and developing a story that revolves around answering that question.

                            The Book of Eli is a good example. The theme to that film is undoubtedly faith. The protagonist has faith. The book he protects is about faith. Gary Oldman sees the power in that faith.
                            Book of Eli is similar to the types of stories I try to write so I'm gonna jump on this.

                            Book of Eli is essentially a road trip to deliver the book.

                            Faith is a central theme (or whatever the gurus call it) for all of the characters.

                            It's faith that allows Eli to keep pushing forward to accomplish his goal. Carnegie is driven by the belief that other peoples faith will make him the supreme dictator of the apocalypse.

                            But is Faith a Central Dramatic Argument?

                            This is where it gets all warm and fuzzy for me.

                            If I were writing this screenplay I'd view it at a road trip with cool obstacles standing in the way of Eli delivering his book.

                            The whole faith angle would be there as a motivator for Eli and Carnegie but I'm not sure while I'm writing it I'd be thinking of Faith as my Central Dramatic Argument.

                            I'd be thinking, How do I f*ck with Eli and what cool stuff can I throw in his path. <-- maybe that's an area where I need to grow as a writer.

                            Gary Whitta (BoEli screenwriter) occasionally post here. He needs to drop some knowledge on my faulty thinking sponge.

                            Screw it, how much is Save the cat?
                            Last edited by christopher jon; 01-22-2012, 03:54 PM.
                            Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue

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                            • #74
                              Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                              Originally posted by christopher jon View Post

                              But is Faith a Central Dramatic Argument?

                              This is where it gets all warm and fuzzy for me.

                              If I were writing this screenplay I'd view it at a road trip with cool obstacles standing in the way of Eli delivering his book.

                              The whole faith angle would be there as a motivator for Eli and Carnegie but I'm not sure while I'm writing it I'd be thinking of Faith as my Central Dramatic Argument.
                              If you wouldn't be thinking of faith as your CDA, what would be thinking of as your CDA? The CDA has an important purpose.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Central Dramatic Argument

                                Eli wants to use faith/religion to save humankind, Carnegie wants to use faith/religion to conquer humankind. Two opposing sides of an argument.

                                I don't recall but - was it mentioned in the film that the cause of the nuclear war had a religious component? For some reason I baguely remember this.
                                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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