Fury

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  • #46
    Re: Fury

    Originally posted by Geoff Alexander View Post
    All of this nitpicking aside, the thing that set the Nazi regime apart which you seem to want to leave out of the equation is their desire to annihilate completely any person, thought, or cultural artifact which didn't conform to and serve their desire to create a world in their own image.
    entlassen doesn't concern himself with minor things like genocidal intent.
    "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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    • #47
      Re: Fury

      Originally posted by entlassen View Post
      Like I said, before the war broke out, the main ambition of the German government was the political unification of Germans as well as their protection against the USSR and the Western Allies, who started rearming the moment WWI ended. A German-Soviet war was most likely inevitable due to Molotov's increasing demands, Soviet army buildup, the Winter War, etc
      ... and Hitler's bellicose nature.

      Originally posted by entlassen View Post
      1. The government wasn't opposed to all modern art.
      2. I didn't link to a document, I linked to a scan of photographs.
      3. Even if I had "said the exact same frickin' thing" does that make it wrong?
      1) The government was absolutely deranged about most modern art. For instance, they decried the Bauhaus for its propensity for flat roofs on buildings, ululating that it smacked of "orientalism" as opposed to the good, proper Germanic gables.
      2) The scan was from the catalogue for the "Degenerate Art" exhibition.
      3) It makes it creepy. Like your entire take on all of this.

      Originally posted by entlassen View Post
      The second pic I posted was a Breker. You apparently couldn't tell the difference. I'll let that speak for itself.
      Uhhh... not so fast. Go check your link, sport.

      This: http://k03.kn3.net/5E9C0739A.jpg gives a "403 - Forbidden" page. I would be able to tell a Breker in a second if I could actually see it.

      Originally posted by entlassen View Post
      Stalin also had a begrudging respect for Hitler, and vice versa. So what?
      It's just very telling the type of taste you have in common with those esteemed gentlemen.

      Originally posted by entlassen View Post
      Peoples and nations across the world have differing ideals of beauty and aesthetics. Why would I opposed a Nordic country celebrating Nordic beauty? Do you oppose the Chinese celebrating their ideals of beauty? You can be sure their government regulates that as well.
      "Racially pure human beings"?

      To me, a racially pure human being is a human being whose father is a human being and whose mother is a human being.

      How about you?

      Comment


      • #48
        Nordic Beauty Ideals

        Peoples and nations across the world have differing ideals of beauty and aesthetics. Why would I opposed a Nordic country celebrating Nordic beauty?

        You might want to check out Malou Hansson, Miss Sweden 2002, who competed in Miss Universe Pageant. Now *that's* Nordic beauty!

        http://telepixtvcgi.warnerbros.com/d...louHansson.jpg
        PS: That ain't a tan.
        http://www.blackpast.org/files/Malou...iss_Sweden.png
        Bikini shot because, well, just because.

        Bill
        Last edited by wcmartell; 03-31-2015, 03:36 PM.
        Free Script Tips:
        http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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        • #49
          Re: Fury

          1) The government was absolutely deranged about most modern art. For instance, they decried the Bauhaus for its propensity for flat roofs on buildings, ululating that it smacked of "orientalism" as opposed to the good, proper Germanic gables.
          2) The scan was from the catalogue for the "Degenerate Art" exhibition.
          3) It makes it creepy. Like your entire take on all of this.
          1. That probably stemmed from Hitler's interest in architecture. Anyway what do you have to say about the Allies detonating German buildings and burning German books in huge bonfires because they thought they were evil? No problem with that, I assume.
          2. So?
          3. What I find creepy is that someone would actually prefer the distorted human figures from that scan as opposed to the aesthetically-appealing ones I posted later. What do you find so offensive about the latter as opposed to the former? Nietzsche would have a field day with you.

          This: http://k03.kn3.net/5E9C0739A.jpg gives a "403 - Forbidden" page. I would be able to tell a Breker in a second if I could actually see it.
          I don't have any problem seeing it.

          It's just very telling the type of taste you have in common with those esteemed gentlemen.
          Socialist realism, the art that the Soviets enforced, was vastly different from the neoclassicism found in the Third Reich.

          "Racially pure human beings"?

          To me, a racially pure human being is a human being whose father is a human being and whose mother is a human being.

          How about you?
          I don't know. Wasn't there recently a big controversy in Japan over a beauty queen not being Japanese enough? Ask them.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Fury

            I don't know. Wasn't there recently a big controversy in Japan over a beauty queen not being Japanese enough? Ask them.

            Except Ariana Miyamoto was crowned Miss Japan because they (majority) thought she was the perfect image of Japanese beauty. She didn't *lose* the pageant, she won it.

            After that, a small minority of racist aholes complained.

            But she was selected as the image of Japanese beauty.

            Bikini:
            http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/...7108613269.jpg

            Bill
            Last edited by wcmartell; 04-01-2015, 12:32 AM.
            Free Script Tips:
            http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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            • #51
              Re: Fury

              Originally posted by entlassen View Post
              1. That probably stemmed from Hitler's interest in architecture. Anyway what do you have to say about the Allies detonating German buildings and burning German books in huge bonfires because they thought they were evil? No problem with that, I assume.
              2. So?
              3. What I find creepy is that someone would actually prefer the distorted human figures from that scan as opposed to the aesthetically-appealing ones I posted later. What do you find so offensive about the latter as opposed to the former? Nietzsche would have a field day with you.
              1. Are you referring to the destruction of places like the Olbersalzberg? In some ways, I'd like it to have remained, but it would have become a pilgrimage site for unreconstructed Hitler fanatics. Know anyone like that?
              2. I've already covered it. That you have the exact same thoughts as creeps like Alfred Rosenberg is very, very telling.
              3. Your appreciation and analysis of art seems to be as facile as the Nazis. "Oh, it doesn't look exactly like a real person. My eyes! My eyes!".

              Originally posted by entlassen View Post
              I don't have any problem seeing it.
              It 403'd when I clicked directly on the link.

              However, when I cut and paste the url it shows up. And it's obvious as a Breker. Kitsch, empty and soulless. Inchoate. Also has the classic Nazi art legerdemain of sneaking a hint of eroticism into their crap covered up by classical allusions. Like the clumsy garbage by Ziegler. Such as:

              http://ozebook.com/wordpress/wp-cont...heim785848.jpg

              http://ozebook.com/wordpress/wp-cont...heim390114.jpg

              Originally posted by entlassen View Post
              Socialist realism, the art that the Soviets enforced, was vastly different from the neoclassicism found in the Third Reich.
              Stylistically it was different. But it shared the same root desire: art as state propaganda.

              Originally posted by entlassen View Post
              I don't know. Wasn't there recently a big controversy in Japan over a beauty queen not being Japanese enough? Ask them.
              You don't know if a "racially pure human being" is someone whose father and mother are humans?

              Again, says a lot about you.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Fury

                Originally posted by entlassen View Post
                Are we really going to pretend that everything that had to do with Germany between 1933 and 1945 was evil? Even the government encouraging people to not smoke, and encouraging schoolchildren to plant trees? Even that!
                LOL! So this makes up for starting WWII and killing six million Jews in their conquest to eradicate their race from Europe? You're right, guess the Nazis weren't that bad!

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                • #53
                  Re: Fury

                  Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
                  LOL! So this makes up for starting WWII and killing six million Jews in their conquest to eradicate their race from Europe? You're right, guess the Nazis weren't that bad!
                  I don't know, if you can put 40% of a nation to work imprisoning and murdering 10% of the nation, while the other 50% of the nation attend parades and profess ignorance, then doesn't that somehow mean that, overall, you are doing good for the majority of the nation?

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                  • #54
                    Re: Fury

                    Originally posted by Geoff Alexander View Post
                    I don't know, if you can put 40% of a nation to work imprisoning and murdering 10% of the nation, while the other 50% of the nation attend parades and profess ignorance, then doesn't that somehow mean that, overall, you are doing good for the majority of the nation?
                    Yes! And they planted trees. So it's all good!

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                    • #55
                      Re: Fury

                      Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
                      Yes! And they planted trees. So it's all good!
                      Seriously, what kind of subhuman doesn't like trees?

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                      • #56
                        Re: Fury

                        Those trees were planted so our generation could write scripts on them.

                        Yay for the Nazis!

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                        • #57
                          Re: Fury

                          Originally posted by entlassen View Post
                          Sociopaths are characterized by their greed and lack of empathy for others. If Hitler had lacked empathy he wouldn't have done all the good he did for Germans in the 1930s. Sociopathic leaders don't, for example, end unemployment, build highways, ensure their people have affordable transportation, restructure an outdated military, or oversee an aesthetic overhaul of their country. Instead they steal the country's wealth, live in palaces eating and fornicating all day, and either let everything go to crap or turn the country into a prison camp like the USSR.
                          I want to read more about how you suggest the Holocaust, the extermination of the Jews and your rating of Hitler with the DSM/APSD. If he had to do it all over again would he? Was he just a pawn of other Jew-haters? Was he just caught up in it all? Was he just a narcissist? A wild-eyed dreamer whose dreams would have come true if it hadn't been for those Russians and pesky Allied Forces? Just how would you diagnose Hitler? What is your diagnosis of him for us unedjumacated folks. Enlighten me.
                          #writinginaStarbucks #re-thinkingmyexistence #notanotherweaklogline #thinkingwhatwouldWilldo

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                          • #58
                            Re: Fury

                            Originally posted by entlassen View Post
                            Like I said, before the war broke out...
                            "Adolf, I think we're on the right path, here. You've got Germans feeling good about themselves again. Well, most of them except the rats, if you know what I mean. But unemployment's down, prices are down...looks like it's going to be a beautiful--Ohmygod! War broke out! Where the hell did that come from?? Outta fvckin' nowhere...geez, you turn your back for one second..."

                            One cannot defend Nazism, but entlassen's giving it the old college try. Keep dreamin' that dream, entlassen.

                            (In all seriousness, this is where real names need to come into play. I need to know who to avoid.)

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Fury

                              Originally posted by entlassen View Post
                              Are we really going to pretend that everything that had to do with Germany between 1933 and 1945 was evil? Even the government encouraging people to not smoke, and encouraging schoolchildren to plant trees? Even that?
                              Maybe you've just gotten tired of hearing about concentration camps. Google image Einsatzgruppen (German SS paramilitary death squads) and see the holocaust on the Eastern Front, where millions of Jews/Slavs were walked out of their villages and shot in mass graves. Well, some were shot. Many young children simply had their necks snapped due to bullet shortages.

                              Afterwards, you might think to yourself "You know what? The tree-planting thing seems a bit insignificant in comparison."
                              I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Fury

                                Taken in a vacuum, were some of the Nazi policies "progressive" or even "enlightened"? Sure.

                                Were there good, honorable Germans during the war? Sure, I guess.

                                Does Hollywood tend to reduce complex conflict into Good vs Evi over-simplifications? Without a doubt.

                                Has the world treated Hitler and Nazi Germany unfairly? NO FVCKING WAY!!!

                                The foundation of the Nazi Party was the belief in their racial superiority. That single belief is what guided even the best-intentioned of their policies (such as -Aryans don't smoke because lung cancer makes them less likely to reproduce). At the very least, this belief structure and the policies based upon them were racist... which doesn't give you much wiggle-room to defend them. But Nazi Germany went beyond simple racist ideology. They went about 11 MILLION steps beyond it.

                                I appreciate this conversation, entlassen. I believe it's important to always remember that YES the Germans weren't innately evil people. They weren't orcs, or demons. They were people. Well-educated, proud, industrial, every-day people. And in that sense, I find what happened even scarier.

                                But give it up, entlassen. You're defending the indefensible. You're backing yourself into corners that you can't possibly believe.

                                Nazi Germany deserves the place that history has given them. And they will stay there forever.

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