What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

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  • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

    Originally posted by mikejc View Post
    The thing I find amazing from the article is that it takes a team of writers 40 hours a week each to write a Joan Rivers reality show.
    Have you watched the show? It's like the best stand up ever. I'm not really their audience and now I find myself watching it every week because the level of joke writing is so high. They've reeled me in and I'm a Tomboy who knows nothing about fashion. I believe it takes that much writing power. I totally support their strike - they deserve to be paid real wages.

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    • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

      I think they were just following the OP on the "5 points to a successful career" thread. Point 1, work for free.

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      • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

        Originally posted by mikejc View Post
        I think they were just following the OP on the "5 points to a successful career" thread. Point 1, work for free.
        Funny. Thank you.

        There's nothing that sticks in my craw more than "you have to work for free." No.... you don't. I have been asked and have always politely said no. I don't do that. I tell them, "If you want the talents you think I seem to have then you need to pay me for them." Only once, early in our relationship, did my manager suggest I take a free writing job and I told him that as long as the producer called my mortgage company and the electric company and American Express and got my bills delayed indefinitely without penalty I'd be happy to. He's never asked again and I'm still making him money. Even when I was new and struggling I didn't work for free for people who intended to make money off my efforts.

        The question of this thread is "What can a screenwriter expect to earn"? Well.... Nothing... if you work for free. I do not begrudge screenwriters for doing it and understand if they see it as a way in, but when you set your worth at zero you have a long climb to get where you need to go.

        I'm not talking about some short film where you're getting your name on a credit or a short film where you're helping a friend. Helping a friend is different. I'm talking about a producer who intends to make money off your free work and would never work for free if you asked them to do so.

        Just my opinion and thanks for letting me vent.
        Last edited by EdFury; 05-06-2013, 10:14 AM.

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        • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

          Well, your name IS Ed Fury.

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          • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

            Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
            I think the only real measure of success in this whole business is: are you making your living as a writer?

            The rest is just noise.
            I'm repeating this because I think it's the most valid point in the money-making discussion, but not necessarily the whole point of the discussion.

            If you're making your living writing, well, congrats- you are a writer by definition. You put that on your taxes and (if needed later) unemployment forms.

            But success is a bit more slippery, I think. Is writing your vocation? Have you devoted thousands of hours to it and made hard sacrifices to accommodate its place in your life? Can you be proud of all of that and keep writing regardless of the challenges? I think that's a success money can't qualify.

            I'm kind of amazed at how much talk is devoted to the numbers here. I mean, movies are ultimately a numbers business, sure, but isn't our most basic job as screenwriters to be the architects of the dreams at the root of those numbers? To give them shape and subtlety and meaning? Not to sound too hippy-dippy about it... But doesn't it make sense to focus on the most important part of your job for the largest percent of your workday? (Sorry, more numbers...)

            And, while on the subject of numbers and success, here's something that's been bugging me- the obsessing over numbers and ratings- especially regarding the BL ratings.

            (I'm really roughly outlining this- feel free to jump in with details/corrections.)

            I recall reading somewhere (though I can't find it now) that when Justin Kremer's script for McCarthy got picked up, it had averaged a 7-something rating on the BL. Well, tons of people read it. But, for it- or any script- to average anything less than a 10 must mean that some people liked it a lot more than others did. Does it mean the rating didn't matter? Not at all. But I think it means the rating wasn't the only thing that mattered. There are so many other factors- trends, subject matter, current successes, connectivity- that might have mattered too.

            So, sure, somewhere in there is a really fancy numbers game. But it's all pretty much roulette, isn't it? There are so many factors at play, but the constant is that the ball is going to stop somewhere.

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            • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

              Originally posted by LauriD View Post
              On the April 23 Scriptnotes podcast, a listener asked what income a successful screenwriter could “expect” to make.

              (For example, borrowing $36,000+ per year to get an MFA in screenwriting is tantamount to financial suicide, since it doesn't improve the odds in any significant way.)

              Comments?
              Those statistics are utterly useless. For starts go back to your statement that the Nichols is the most prestigious screenwriting contest. That's not necessarily true. There's screenwriting labs, and if you produce your own script, there's film festivals such as Tribeca, Sundance, Cannes, Berlin, among others.

              There are other things I've seen over the past few that totally change your access to the industry.

              Move to either Los Angeles or New York and get a job in the industry? That helps a lot. Have access to money somehow and shoot your film independently and again acclaim within the film festival circle? You've gone along way.

              Network at film industry events and keep in touch with people? That helps big time as wel. There are reasons why those who succeeded succeeded.

              Oh, and as with any profession in life to make money, you have to invest money.

              And with anything you serious in life, whether its your education, whether its a career in film, banking, etc you do not worry about how many other people are applying or competing. You submit the best application/proposal/whatever that you can, and you take things from there.

              I've made friends recently who have placed at major festivals and who have launched careers ,but they didn't do it by worrying about how many other screenplays were out there.

              To tell you the truth, since joining film organizations and applying for screenwriting labs and festivals cost money, the fees alone screen out a lot of competition. You'd be surprised at how many people are too cheap to spend the fee to apply. But this applies to many things in life, including going to universities.

              You'd have to find ways to staying in either LA or NYC, and that in and of itself gets rid of a lot of competition.

              Instead of worrying about the failures, why not ask the successes why they are successes. There are reasons.....

              And I do know people who make their living as screenwriters or in the film industry in general. Its certainly possible and doable. Again, you might ask them why. Some of those I spoke to started out as mailroom clerks at a film studio, distributor, tv network, or agency in either LA or NYC.
              Check out my videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/NyFilmmaker32/videos

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              • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

                Good read...a bit depressing but probably close to the truth? (it's justin marks btw)

                http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...20979#comments

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                • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

                  Originally posted by olin1 View Post
                  Good read...a bit depressing but probably close to the truth? (it's justin marks btw)

                  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...20979#comments
                  I didn't think it was depressing. The guy's being paid to do what he wants to do. Most of the few people lucky enough to earn a living at screenwriting probably have a life like that.

                  So is it "depressing" to "only" earn a living but not be Larry David or Aaron Sorkin?

                  Is screenwriting a lottery fantasy (I want to get rich) or a lifestyle fantasy (I want to write every day and get movies made)? Because the lottery doesn't necessarily go with the lifestyle...
                  "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

                  Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

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                  • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

                    Originally posted by LauriD View Post
                    I didn't think it was depressing. The guy's being paid to do what he wants to do. Most of the few people lucky enough to earn a living at screenwriting probably have a life like that.

                    So is it "depressing" to "only" earn a living but not be Larry David or Aaron Sorkin?

                    Is screenwriting a lottery fantasy (I want to get rich) or a lifestyle fantasy (I want to write every day and get movies made)? Because the lottery doesn't necessarily go with the lifestyle...
                    If this guy has been around town for that long, he could had directed or produced some of this projects, where he would have had more control over whether they got made.

                    It sounds like some of you are pulling out down and out stories to comfort yourself for failing.

                    if you're serious about succeeding as a screenwriter, why not ask SUCCESSFUL screenwriters what they did to make it? Why would you even care about the failures (there are legions of them in every field or business)?
                    Check out my videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/NyFilmmaker32/videos

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                    • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

                      Originally posted by NYNEX View Post

                      It sounds like some of you are pulling out down and out stories to comfort yourself for failing.

                      if you're serious about succeeding as a screenwriter, why not ask SUCCESSFUL screenwriters what they did to make it? Why would you even care about the failures (there are legions of them in every field or business)?
                      The guy is a WORKING SCREENWRITER with a comfortable life. He's hardly down and out or a failure in my book.

                      Obviously some people are more successful than others. But that doesn't make the bottom 99% of working screenwriters "failures."

                      If this guy isn't successful, how do YOU define "success"?

                      (And if the guy is a "failure," then why would contemplating this be "comforting" to anyone?)
                      "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

                      Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

                      Comment


                      • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

                        I think it's useless to discuss what "you can expect to make" as a screenwriter. Screenwriters are independent contractors, sole proprietors of their own "small business." The product/service they sell is their writing.

                        As any small business owner, they deal with the ups and downs, pros and cons, ebbs and flows of their industry, the economy, and competition (both current competition and new competition), all at the same time.

                        Not only do they have to be at the top of their writing game, ready and able to deliver solid writing on demand, they must have the mindset of an independent business owner which requires nerves of steel as it relates to money.

                        As someone who not only freelances for small business owners, and has one client who "fixes" small businesses in trouble, I have to say, if you don't have the right mindset the financial insecurity may drive you crazy.

                        Add to this, what I know in general about challenges for independent contractors/small businesses, and as challenging as it is for these people, IMO screenwriters have it way, way, way harder.

                        Because they're not selling widgets or cleaning carpets or fixing vacuum cleaners. Their success rises and falls on the quality of their writing and whether or not someone is willing to pay them to write.

                        If sales get sluggish for the small carpet cleaning business, they can lay off their nephew, or look for cheaper rug shampoo, or use any number of tried-and-true methods to lower their overhead and increase their cash flow. They can even sell their business to a competitor and walk away with the proceeds.

                        What can the screenwriter do when sales are sluggish? Think about it. When you ask, "What can a screenwriter expect to make?" I'd say as much as their personal talent and business savvy enables them to make and even then there's simply no guarantee.
                        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                        • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

                          Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                          What can the screenwriter do when sales are sluggish? Think about it. When you ask, "What can a screenwriter expect to make?" I'd say as much as their personal talent and business savvy enables them to make and even then there's simply no guarantee.
                          Bingo!

                          Comment


                          • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

                            Originally posted by NYNEX View Post
                            If this guy has been around town for that long, he could had directed or produced some of this projects, where he would have had more control over whether they got made.
                            You are incredibly misinformed. When you are working in the studio system, it's extremely hard to get a movie made and even more difficult to get the chance to direct. They don't just hand those jobs out. And I bet you would kill to be in his position - you know a working writer pulling in 6 figures per job. What's funny is he is exactly the kinda guy you suggest talking to.

                            Originally posted by NYNEX View Post
                            It sounds like some of you are pulling out down and out stories to comfort yourself for failing.
                            It's better than suing all the agencies for discrimination!
                            https://twitter.com/#!/moviewriterJeff

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                            • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

                              Originally posted by mrjonesprods View Post
                              You are incredibly misinformed. When you are working in the studio system, it's extremely hard to get a movie made and even more difficult to get the chance to direct. They don't just hand those jobs out. And I bet you would kill to be in his position - you know a working writer pulling in 6 figures per job. What's funny is he is exactly the kinda guy you suggest talking to.



                              It's better than suing all the agencies for discrimination!
                              I'm not incredibly misinformed. There's nothing stopping this man from going the independent route on the side, even if he wanted to still get studio writing jobs.

                              Nothing at all. Totally nothing is stopping this man from taking whatever money he made from projects that were never completed, and filming his OWN project on the side. NOTHING.

                              And it amazing that you bring up something from two years ago. Jealous of the attention I received? LOL
                              Check out my videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/NyFilmmaker32/videos

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                              • Re: What a successful screenwriter can expect to earn - Scriptnotes for April 23

                                Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                                I think it's useless to discuss what "you can expect to make" as a screenwriter. Screenwriters are independent contractors, sole proprietors of their own "small business." The product/service they sell is their writing.

                                As any small business owner, they deal with the ups and downs, pros and cons, ebbs and flows of their industry, the economy, and competition (both current competition and new competition), all at the same time.

                                Not only do they have to be at the top of their writing game, ready and able to deliver solid writing on demand, they must have the mindset of an independent business owner which requires nerves of steel as it relates to money.

                                As someone who not only freelances for small business owners, and has one client who "fixes" small businesses in trouble, I have to say, if you don't have the right mindset the financial insecurity may drive you crazy.

                                Add to this, what I know in general about challenges for independent contractors/small businesses, and as challenging as it is for these people, IMO screenwriters have it way, way, way harder.

                                Because they're not selling widgets or cleaning carpets or fixing vacuum cleaners. Their success rises and falls on the quality of their writing and whether or not someone is willing to pay them to write.

                                If sales get sluggish for the small carpet cleaning business, they can lay off their nephew, or look for cheaper rug shampoo, or use any number of tried-and-true methods to lower their overhead and increase their cash flow. They can even sell their business to a competitor and walk away with the proceeds.

                                What can the screenwriter do when sales are sluggish? Think about it. When you ask, "What can a screenwriter expect to make?" I'd say as much as their personal talent and business savvy enables them to make and even then there's simply no guarantee.
                                Well put.

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