SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

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  • #31
    Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

    Someday I hope it swings back the other way. I want mothereffin walls of text. My writing style is naturally short and clipped and I'm not of the, let's say, Pizzolatto approach to language so sparse looking is easy for me. But I'm so sorry it took you ten extra minutes to read this script. <jerkoff motion>

    Sometimes I just want a big azz block of shiit on the page. I feel like reps are so hyperfocused on white space...it's just like...I get it man. But I want to get a bit flowery with this one. I loved the hell out of the Keeper of the Diary, fantastic read and it was one long paragraph I think.

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    • #32
      Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

      Originally posted by Satriales View Post
      Someday I hope it swings back the other way. I want mothereffin walls of text. My writing style is naturally short and clipped and I'm not of the, let's say, Pizzolatto approach to language so sparse looking is easy for me. But I'm so sorry it took you ten extra minutes to read this script. <jerkoff motion>

      Sometimes I just want a big azz block of shiit on the page. I feel like reps are so hyperfocused on white space...it's just like...I get it man. But I want to get a bit flowery with this one. I loved the hell out of the Keeper of the Diary, fantastic read and it was one long paragraph I think.

      Same... Sometimes I read sh!t and I'm like "okay, I see words... but where's the fukkin VOICE? I have no idea what's unique about how this person views the world. Anyone could have written this sh!t." I want to get a sense of how this writer sees the fukkin world. Those are the lines I'm like "fukkin bitchen, I'm jealous... what a rad way to put it, wish I'd written that line. Nod of respect." RARE these days.

      Perfect example of hella voice: Read anything by Anthony Bourdain. Fukk ton of voice in his sh!t. Dude has a POV. Fukker had to go kill himself before I met him. D!ck. RIP, bruh...


      BTW -- if density on the page matters so gosh-damn fukking much, then WHY THE FUKK ARE THE MAJORITY OF THE CLASSICS DENSE ON THE MUTHA'FUKKIN PAGE???

      Ask an agent, producer, development exec for their top 5 favorite films of all time. NONE of them will be from the last 20 years. Now, to them, I say "Go read those fukking scripts, notice anything different?"

      Idiots.

      ps... I wish I would'a fukkin cussed more in this post. Oh well, next fukkin time. LOL
      Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

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      • #33
        Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

        Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
        i cannot stand it when dialogue or an action line gets split by a page break. i will rewrite that **** until it's gone
        When you posted this I thought it was bizarre. Five seconds ago I came across this, about Tony Gilroy doing the same thing.

        https://nofilmschool.com/2013/10/ton...nal-screenplay

        "... Gilroy is also very particular about the look of his screenplay on the page. If dialogue breaks across the page and he doesn't like it, he'll find lines and descriptions that can be trimmed to make the page itself look right. According to him this work not only makes the scripts tighter and more concise, but the meticulous approach also makes his screenplays easier for people to read -- and read quickly..."

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        • #34
          Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

          Yeah, I'm sort of obsessed with page aesthetics to a point where probably no one would notice these issues but me. It's ultimately pretty silly, but I keep doing it. Maybe it's because I'm a visual artist as well.

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          • #35
            Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

            When I say it, nobody listens. Maybe they'll listen to Tony:

            4. Write an Outline
            Gilroy reveals that he must outline every part of the story before even writing one page of the screenplay. His outlines can stretch from 30 pages up to 80 pages
            and
            5. Write the Screenplay
            Once you know your whole story from the outline process, Gilroy points out that it's fun to write the screenplay.

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            • #36
              Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

              I think I'm the only one who doesn't like some of his movies, but besides that for every "outline first" writer there is a writer who doesn't do that -- John August comes to mind first.

              There.
              Are.
              No.
              Rules.
              Except -- Scripts over 120 pages and you get kicked out of industry forever. -- Tony G in NJ said that to me once.

              I'm having a flashback. I think I typed this before on this board. Holy ****, we are in The Matrix! Make me thinner!

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              • #37
                Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

                Ulp, are we in for a slew of Matrix metaphors nowadays?

                As for outlining or not, of course there are no rules. It's about making the profound challenge of writing a script or a novel, or anything else, as easy as possible.

                I would submit that outlining for a spec is even more important than for an assignment or adaptation. For the latter you already have something to go by, whereas for a spec at first it's only in the ether (or fugue) of your brain.

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                • #38
                  Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

                  Every one is unique.

                  I know for sure the scripts I did less prep work for I wrote the script faster and better -- two of them went out.

                  So it took me awhile to realize treatment and outlines don't lead to my best work.

                  Of course I've done both. Usually reps and producers is when my treatment and outline gear kicks in.

                  But there's a huge difference between just writing on the fly and being ready to write. I may not have a full outline in front of me, but the idea is flowing in my mind for days, weeks, years. And then it comes pouring out of me.

                  And I would argue that if you do go outline route for yourself, leave room for the fun. Don't overwrite it and then make it seem like your doing homework when you get to the script.

                  What works for you would drive me mad. And my way would drive you mad.

                  And even if you handed me your outline or I handed you my treatment, we would still write 90% different scripts because it's just a tool.

                  Think about it like cooking. We are told to prepare a dish. You may set everything up, get all the ingredients. I may wait until the last minute and cook very messy. But all that matters is what the end dish tastes like to others. The prep work -- how the sausage is made -- is meaningless to the person reading it.

                  I went to film school (cry for me.) And the only thing I learned really in my film production 1 class that i recall is when my teacher said "I can only judge you on what you show me, not what you wanted to do, thought about doing, what you left in the editing room." It was a good way to look at screenwriting. The work has to stand for itself.

                  Some writers work much harder than others and get no results. And some Sorkin's can do cocaine and write 57 out of 60 episodes of a TV series in less time than it takes me to write 1 spec.
                  Last edited by Bono; 08-25-2019, 06:58 AM.

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                  • #39
                    Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

                    I haven't learned my best process yet.

                    Truthfully, I think my favorite script is the one I wrote on the road in real time with no outline (It's also the fave of my writer/director buddy, he kept saying "Dude... I've read all your sh!t, it's your best script, try to get it made or let me direct it." So I finally just gave it to him. We'll see what happens). I kinda knew what it was about, but not really. I just knew it was a POINT A to POINT B story and involved hitmen, so I went on the road to write it. Took the same journey as the protag.

                    Best way to write IMO, on the road.

                    That script landed the best for me. The ones that landed the worst were the ones I outlined. So IDK...
                    Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

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                    • #40
                      Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

                      It seems like YOU DO KNOW.

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                      • #41
                        Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

                        Also the outline/treatment/prep work for you is different animal than if you know someone else like a rep/producer is reading it, approving it.

                        One can be written in YOUR style, the other one is more a TERM PAPER getting graded on. Who writers better when they know they're being graded?

                        There is something about trusting yourself as a writer that you learn as you go that I think is what they should pay us for -- I think it's called experience.

                        All i have is the facts. My laid out scripts done with reps -- tons of back and forth -- didn't go out. The scripts I wrote on my own -- no back and forth -- went out. So maybe it's not even the outline as much it is I get final approval for the first product and get to shape the art before I show it. Maybe that's what I need more than others.

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                        • #42
                          Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

                          Originally posted by Bono View Post
                          It seems like YOU DO KNOW.
                          Possibly... maybe I just answered my own question.
                          Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

                            Originally posted by Bono View Post
                            Also the outline/treatment/prep work for you is different animal than if you know someone else like a rep/producer is reading it, approving it.

                            One can be written in YOUR style, the other one is more a TERM PAPER getting graded on. Who writers better when they know they're being graded?

                            There is something about trusting yourself as a writer that you learn as you go that I think is what they should pay us for -- I think it's called experience.

                            All i have is the facts. My laid out scripts done with reps -- tons of back and forth -- didn't go out. The scripts I wrote on my own -- no back and forth -- went out. So maybe it's not even the outline as much it is I get final approval for the first product and get to shape the art before I show it. Maybe that's what I need more than others.

                            I hear you.

                            It's basically the process of: SHOW ME THE SCRIPT BEFORE YOU WRITE THE SCRIPT.

                            Kinda silly...

                            But, yeah, my best process: Write on location.

                            Which is likely why Tony G demands the studio put him on location to have a look around (Tony, if you're reading this [LOL] you're one of my favorite screenwriters! You rock bruh!)
                            Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

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                            • #44
                              Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

                              for me, it's important to keep an open mind about process. each time it's a little different, but two times, when i was able to write each spec in about 12 twelve hour days, i used the same process.

                              i now use scrivener to do my outlines. bought it in january. for me, it's an amazing tool to outline a script. i have files in folders all in one place below the actual outlined beats of the story above.

                              and it's workhorse for material. websites, images, videos all right there in in ONE file.

                              location is also a part of my process.

                              so, i was very fortunate in the past two years, because even though i wasn't able to write even half as much as i used to, i travelled a lot. A LOT. we're talking more than 90,000 air miles a lot. and all over the US cities, London, Europe, Scandanavia, Cancun and even Cuba! now that's a location!

                              being at a real location can have an impact on your writing. i know people don't normally have this opportunity, but you can do this same kind of research virtually.

                              and because of it i have real tangible location experience that i can use, it gives my writing authenticity, confidence and conviction, at least i think it does.

                              the feeling you get when you sit in a space and write, like a bar or a restaurant or park, can be amazingly inspiring: lighting, mood, atmosphere, clientele-- you find characters, even down to the very swanky drink menu--

                              and entire sequence where my two main characters meet in this high end restaurant bar in Chicago called Maple and Ash, comes from a play on the double meaning of the actual drink menu-- so i encourage you to keep websites of cool places you've been, dives that can reinforce or compliment your tone. you can revisit their websites.

                              write in specific places. change locations. not all the time, but sometimes, can help with inspiration. shopping doesn't have to be just about shopping. you can use a high end gallery that sells pieces for $80,000 simply by walking the room, watching people, getting a sense of space and emotion that is found when you're AT A LOCATION. this can be where your characters meet for the first time. settings that are in contrast with your characters lives can add depth when we see how they react being in a space they're uncomfortable with. or how a character might "pretend" to belong in a space, know what i mean?

                              that way, when you need a specific KIND of space in your script, for whatever reason, you can recall how you felt in a space and imbue it into your script. i take pics of everything, food, drinks, people, the way the sun sets in a restaurant when the sun never goes down in the middle of summer. or a nightclub where it's twilight all night.

                              these are small details that can encompass a single line of description but are power-punches to the visual aspect of your screenplay.

                              screenplays are meant to be visual, too. you can use imagery to attract a director to your work. make your location a character, too. i'm always open to evolving my process. i am a visual writer so taking pics help me establish it in my mind's eye. that's part of my process, whether they're pics i've taken or ones i find online.

                              it helps if you've been there. lived there, visited there, but you can also find videos and pictures of places on line and retell what you see, whether it's manmade or a natural landscape.

                              location can do double-time-- provide inspiration of a location as well as inspire your writing by being in a new place, with new sounds, new people.

                              i researched the largest waterfalls on the planet in order to create the establishing shot of FOUNTAINHEAD in my screenplay. then, i took a memory from when i was a teenager where we would swim at this dilapidated dam and SWIM under and beneath the waterfall curtain. we'd swim against the current, really difficult then move to the center of the dam and leap out through the waterfall curtain... i've used it in two different scripts in two different ways.

                              every experience you've ever had is an opportunity to create a vivid world and since you actually lived it, you can bring it to live in your own scripts. not only that, but embellishing is an amazing tool as well.

                              sorry i kind of went off on a tangent for a while. my point is going to a location can help with your process, even if you never leave your office. what i'm trying to say, is that locking yourself in a location to write without distractions can be cathartic, but locations can do more as well. if your process is to escape distraction or provide distraction be open to trying new ways to find or evolve your process.

                              you won't know what works until you try something new.

                              remember, every place you go is an opportunity, even if it's being stopped at a red light in a busy intersection or being stuck in mid-town traffic on your way to dinner and the sun is setting behind you.
                              Last edited by finalact4; 08-25-2019, 10:06 AM.
                              "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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                              • #45
                                Re: SCRIPT LENGTH: let's take a poll

                                Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                                for me...[snip]

                                Yup... agreed.

                                So... Tangent away.

                                For me, being on location (I was talking to these people asking "can we shoot here?" as I went. All of them we're like "Yup, lemme introduce you to ___.") is the fukking best! I loved it! Met so many interesting people along the way who made it into the script, by accident.

                                I've said it before on here, but I get a high from being in dangerous situations. And/or writing in a location that's illegal. What a fukkin BLAST that is! You'll learn **** you could never have known without actually being there.

                                Example: There's a pinwheel in a grave covered in dust fussed by the sweltering breeze? Cool, that's the fukkin opening shot! Swallows warbling in the abandoned mission, interesting, never would have thought of that. An old woman with corse white hair, face looks like leather, at an abandoned gas station before a fold out table selling ice and sitting along side an native American mannequin with gold tinsel in his lap. WHAT??? Dude, I never would have come up with that sh!t in my mind. Professional killers in Mexico inviting me to sit down and talk about being a hitman. Now we're getting somewhere. This is the sh!t I dig! How deep dive can I go? I wanna end up just shy of almost dead. Now I've got a cool fukkin story.

                                FUKKING LOVE THAT SH!T...

                                You can't get that experience online. Likely why that's my favorite script. I was there. I lived it.

                                If you can afford to... write on location! Fukk Starbucks! It will change your life.
                                Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

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