Three writers for the same job

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  • Three writers for the same job

    Long story short, went in for a general. Hit it off with the producer. Spent a lot of hours rewriting a treatment with her. She said we'd present to the rest of the producers and see how they responded.

    Now I get an email to set that meeting up. Oh and by the way there are TWO OTHER WRITERS who are doing the same thing. So basically they are going to meet with all of us and choose a writer. And now they've also got three treatments to work from for free.

    Granted, I knew full well I was doing work for free. I'm not in the guild and figure I gotta take my lumps for a chance to get paid.

    But I didn't know I was doing it for free AND I would be competing against two other writers for the gig.

    My question is, is this what we have to do in the beginning to get work? Should I not have done it or done things differently? Is this a pretty standard way of doing business these days?

    I can't see saying no to a chance to getting work. But I also understand that it will keep on going like this until people say no. I'm just not in a position where I can afford principles.

  • #2
    Re: Three writers for the same job

    Originally posted by slupo View Post
    Long story short, went in for a general. Hit it off with the producer. Spent a lot of hours rewriting a treatment with her. She said we'd present to the rest of the producers and see how they responded.

    Now I get an email to set that meeting up. Oh and by the way there are TWO OTHER WRITERS who are doing the same thing. So basically they are going to meet with all of us and choose a writer. And now they've also got three treatments to work from for free.

    Granted, I knew full well I was doing work for free. I'm not in the guild and figure I gotta take my lumps for a chance to get paid.

    But I didn't know I was doing it for free AND I would be competing against two other writers for the gig.

    My question is, is this what we have to do in the beginning to get work? Should I not have done it or done things differently? Is this a pretty standard way of doing business these days?

    I can't see saying no to a chance to getting work. But I also understand that it will keep on going like this until people say no. I'm just not in a position where I can afford principles.
    It's not just you, this is happening to everyone, including working writers in the guild. It's pretty much a bake-off, where they pit other writers against each other and get them to do work for free. The guild has talked about addressing the issue.

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    • #3
      Re: Three writers for the same job

      It's even worse than you think. My guess is that you're competing with those other two writers not for a job (producers love to talk about their development funds, but I've never seen one get used), but rather for the chance to pitch to studios. If no studio bites, that project is not only dead, you can't do anything with it yourself because you developed it with him/her.

      It's easy for us to say "run for the hills, it costs them nothing to get free work out of 3 writers", but sometimes that's the sh*t you have to go through when you're starting out. My first studio sale came about the same way - Kevin Misher (who was on the Paramount lot at the time) had several writers whip up takes on an idea. He picked mine, and I thought I had a job, but it turns out I still had to pitch Paramount. If they said no, it was all for nothing. Fortunately they said yes. But I've also had plenty of situations where I wasted a lot of time on similar things that didn't pan out. Go with your gut - if you love the project and/or think you could kill it, see it through.
      https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
      http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Three writers for the same job

        Yep. Similar thing happened to me couple weeks ago. Any time I'm doing treatment/pitch work for free, I assume it's just a relationship building exercise. It's always nice to have production companies/producers who like you and your work. But as for a pay out, it's basically like buying scratch tickets.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Three writers for the same job

          Thanks guys. It's good to know that I'm not the only one. It's bad to know that I can look forward to a lot more of this in the future

          And Chomp, supposedly financing is already secured from repeat investors and they can pay out the writer as soon as they choose one. So no studio pitching. Or so they tell me...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Three writers for the same job

            It's these types of situations where you hope your agent is doing exactly what I mentioned in another thread [pulling info company wide and strategizing] and was scolded, telling me agents don't work like that. Yes, they 100% do. You'll just never hear about it as a writer. All you get is them call saying "you got the gig", an agent will never tell you how, other than "they loved your take" or "they thought you were great." Never does your agent say "listen, they didn't want to go with you until I agented the sh*t out of this and convinced them to take a flyer on you." That's an agent's job, not just the nuts and bolts of making deals.

            My question to my agent would be "who are the other writers up for this and how interested is the studio [producer?] in them?" I'd want to know what my odds/temp was going in before doing free work. I'd also want to know how hot the producer was right that second. Thing to remember is that your agent is, in a way, against you in the beginning; they don't have to do the work, you do. So, they don't [necessarily] care if you waste your time because it's not wasting theirs. Sure, they want you to land, but if you don't pan out there's a sea of vetted/filtered writers delivered to their door step daily. A great agent will strategize long term, as opposed to just trying to stuff you into some gig in order to please the dept. head come bonus time. Is it good for your career trajectory? Are you working with the right people? Do they have a track record of getting projects *made* etc. All questions I'd have for my agent.

            I think the newer a writer is, the less often they feel obliged to ask questions [of their agent], they don't want to seem ungrateful or entitled. But you are entitled to know what the strategy is. It's the most important juncture to ask lots of questions [if they send you down a dead end road, you're the one who's writing career goes cold. They drive off into the sunset in a convertible BMW i8]. Was the strategy ever discussed? Based on the question it doesn't feel like you know what it is for you.
            DOPE CITY

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Three writers for the same job

              What if it's a manager or manager-attached-as-producer sending their clients in on these types of meetings rather than an agent?

              Or are you using agent/manager interchangeably in this case?

              Originally posted by surftatboy View Post
              It's these types of situations where you hope your agent is doing exactly what I mentioned in another thread [pulling info company wide and strategizing] and was scolded, telling me agents don't work like that. Yes, they 100% do. You'll just never hear about it as a writer. All you get is them call saying "you got the gig", an agent will never tell you how, other than "they loved your take" or "they thought you were great." Never does your agent say "listen, they didn't want to go with you until I agented the sh*t out of this and convinced them to take a flyer on you." That's an agent's job, not just the nuts and bolts of making deals.

              My question to my agent would be "who are the other writers up for this and how interested is the studio [producer?] in them?" I'd want to know what my odds/temp was going in before doing free work. I'd also want to know how hot the producer was right that second. Thing to remember is that your agent is, in a way, against you in the beginning; they don't have to do the work, you do. So, they don't [necessarily] care if you waste your time because it's not wasting theirs. Sure, they want you to land, but if you don't pan out there's a sea of vetted/filtered writers delivered to their door step daily. A great agent will strategize long term, as opposed to just trying to stuff you into some gig in order to please the dept. head come bonus time. Is it good for your career trajectory? Are you working with the right people? Do they have a track record of getting projects *made* etc. All questions I'd have for my agent.

              I think the newer a writer is, the less often they feel obliged to ask questions [of their agent], they don't want to seem ungrateful or entitled. But you are entitled to know what the strategy is. It's the most important juncture to ask lots of questions [if they send you down a dead end road, you're the one who's writing career goes cold. They drive off into the sunset in a convertible BMW i8]. Was the strategy ever discussed? Based on the question it doesn't feel like you know what it is for you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Three writers for the same job

                Originally posted by slupo View Post
                Long story short, went in for a general. Hit it off with the producer. Spent a lot of hours rewriting a treatment with her. She said we'd present to the rest of the producers and see how they responded.

                Now I get an email to set that meeting up. Oh and by the way there are TWO OTHER WRITERS who are doing the same thing. So basically they are going to meet with all of us and choose a writer. And now they've also got three treatments to work from for free.

                Granted, I knew full well I was doing work for free. I'm not in the guild and figure I gotta take my lumps for a chance to get paid.

                But I didn't know I was doing it for free AND I would be competing against two other writers for the gig.

                My question is, is this what we have to do in the beginning to get work? Should I not have done it or done things differently? Is this a pretty standard way of doing business these days?

                I can't see saying no to a chance to getting work. But I also understand that it will keep on going like this until people say no. I'm just not in a position where I can afford principles.
                Join the club. I just did this for a series. Producers came to me for my take on a new series for an established star. Told me what this star wanted as far as a loose premise and some interesting casting requirements. I knew I wasn't the only one they approached. My guess is at least a half dozen other writers. So I did the free work involved, knowing it probably wasn't going anywhere.

                Except it did. They loved my take. The star loved my take. A cable network loved the take. Two months of negotiations with my reps later and I'm writing the pilot and creating a bible. For pay. Yes. Most of the time these things are a waste of time, but sometimes... they're not. You have to do your best job and hope they agree with you instead of the others. It's a shitty way to do things, but someone's going to end up with a job most of the time. I hope it's you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Three writers for the same job

                  Originally posted by slupo View Post
                  Long story short, went in for a general. Hit it off with the producer. Spent a lot of hours rewriting a treatment with her. She said we'd present to the rest of the producers and see how they responded.

                  Now I get an email to set that meeting up. Oh and by the way there are TWO OTHER WRITERS who are doing the same thing. So basically they are going to meet with all of us and choose a writer. And now they've also got three treatments to work from for free.

                  Granted, I knew full well I was doing work for free. I'm not in the guild and figure I gotta take my lumps for a chance to get paid.

                  But I didn't know I was doing it for free AND I would be competing against two other writers for the gig.

                  My question is, is this what we have to do in the beginning to get work? Should I not have done it or done things differently? Is this a pretty standard way of doing business these days?

                  I can't see saying no to a chance to getting work. But I also understand that it will keep on going like this until people say no. I'm just not in a position where I can afford principles.
                  You can't afford NOT to have principles. I know I'm always sounding like a broken record but... what you should have done differently is ASK FOR PAYMENT. Not just ask... INSIST. Never, ever, ever, ever, work for free. I don't care if it's rewriting a treatment, writing a script, rewriting a script, writing a synopsis, or ANYTHING. If they ask you to do some work, you ask for money.

                  "Granted, I knew full well I was doing work for free. I'm not in the guild and figure I gotta take my lumps for a chance to get paid."

                  This is EXACTLY the attitude that producers prey on, and it's a complete misconception. Just because you're not in the guild doesn't mean you don't deserve to get paid. Just because you're not Aaron Sorkin doesn't mean you don't deserve to get paid. You don't have to take any lumps. You DO have to ask to get paid. And if asking to get paid makes the producer walk, then believe me, they weren't worth your time.

                  I know plenty of people on this board disagree with me on this... but you really DON'T have to be desperate. I used to do what you did. I would jump at the opportunity to do something for free if it had even the slightest chance of leading to a break some kind or something that would be paid -- and of course it never did. There was ALWAYS a catch of some kind -- oh they don't have the funding in the end. Oh there's other writers on the concept, too. Oh it fell through because the producer's A-list contact moved to Thailand. Then, a few years ago, I was emailing with a writer on this board (who doesn't frequent it anymore) and he told me he made a decision a year prior not to do ANYTHING for any producer, director, manager or anyone else in the industry for less than $2,000. And sure enough -- and I'll use his own words here, "It may be just a coincidence but since making that decision I optioned a script for $2,500 and got a paid writing assignment for $2,000." This convinced me. I then decided to do the same thing and I'm telling you the same thing happened to me. I set a minimum amount and sure enough GOT IT for a script option and actually got FIVE TIMES it for an assignment. I'm telling you -- if you decide you deserve to get paid, if you respect your own time and work/effort, if you decide your work is worth money, you WILL be paid for your work. It's a weird Oprah/Eckhart Tolle/The Secret thing that I never believed in until I had this experience with the aforementioned writer I was emailing with who made me change my ways.

                  I think this is the last I'll say on this matter ever on these forums -- probably to the relief of many I just get extremely frustrated seeing the same thing happen over and over again and seeing people in the industry take advantage of screenwriters' desperation.

                  Don't be desperate anymore.

                  Work hard.

                  Write what you love.

                  Decide you must be paid and you will be paid.

                  It's as simple as that.
                  Last edited by grumpywriter; 02-17-2016, 04:32 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Three writers for the same job

                    Originally posted by EdFury View Post
                    Join the club. I just did this for a series. Producers came to me for my take on a new series for an established star. Told me what this star wanted as far as a loose premise and some interesting casting requirements. I knew I wasn't the only one they approached. My guess is at least a half dozen other writers. So I did the free work involved, knowing it probably wasn't going anywhere.

                    Except it did. They loved my take. The star loved my take. A cable network loved the take. Two months of negotiations with my reps later and I'm writing the pilot and creating a bible. For pay. Yes. Most of the time these things are a waste of time, but sometimes... they're not. You have to do your best job and hope they agree with you instead of the others. It's a shitty way to do things, but someone's going to end up with a job most of the time. I hope it's you.
                    First off, congrats to EdFury! But see, that's what I was talking about earlier. The producer didn't pay EdFury himself, as OP was describing. Ed had to beat the other writers for the chance just to go pitch the star, then the studio, then the network, and only then is there pay. My caution to OP is not to trust this producer to pay anything out of pocket, despite talk of a development fund.
                    https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
                    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Three writers for the same job

                      ^RIGHT^

                      And if anyone here has been paid out of discretionary funds (recently) I'd love to know how you did it. I'm working (developing) with a top tier producer now, I've never brought up money. Why bother? What're they going to pay you 5k? Not worth disrupting things IMO. It's not a paycheck, thus not worth the effort to try to secure it. Despite the fact that he could definitely afford to pay it.

                      I look at it this way: it's my project, nobody is being paid yet. They are helping me get it in shape for the studio/director. Why should I be paid now when they aren't?

                      If it were a scenario like my last deal where the studio was working on a deal for them and lagging on mine. The I agree. Why is mine being held up!?

                      Also -- if you're working with a big producer, why raise that red flag? At the very least it helps you understand how big producers do things (what they expect of your work). Why be the guy whining about a few bucks. If I were that producer of think "dude... I have money from projects that SOLD or got MADE." I'd also be thinking "what's going to happen down the road when a studio asks him to do a rewrite as a favor?" Sometimes you have to do a 'quick pass' (or whatever bullshit the studio wants to call it) for free in a time crunch. But that favor turns into the studio owing you down the road. Your agent will definitely remind them on the next deal. Sometimes it's better to make friends in high places vs securing some chump change.
                      Last edited by surftatboy; 02-17-2016, 04:51 PM.
                      DOPE CITY

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Three writers for the same job

                        Originally posted by mgwriter View Post
                        What if it's a manager or manager-attached-as-producer sending their clients in on these types of meetings rather than an agent?

                        Or are you using agent/manager interchangeably in this case?
                        Interchangeably, yes.
                        DOPE CITY

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Three writers for the same job

                          Originally posted by grumpywriter View Post
                          You can't afford NOT to have principles. I know I'm always sounding like a broken record but... what you should have done differently is ASK FOR PAYMENT. Not just ask... INSIST. Never, ever, ever, ever, work for free. I don't care if it's rewriting a treatment, writing a script, rewriting a script, writing a synopsis, or ANYTHING. If they ask you to do some work, you ask for money.

                          "Granted, I knew full well I was doing work for free. I'm not in the guild and figure I gotta take my lumps for a chance to get paid."

                          This is EXACTLY the attitude that producers prey on, and it's a complete misconception. Just because you're not in the guild doesn't mean you don't deserve to get paid. Just because you're not Aaron Sorkin doesn't mean you don't deserve to get paid. You don't have to take any lumps. You DO have to ask to get paid. And if asking to get paid makes the producer walk, then believe me, they weren't worth your time.

                          I know plenty of people on this board disagree with me on this... but you really DON'T have to be desperate. I used to do what you did. I would jump at the opportunity to do something for free if it had even the slightest chance of leading to a break some kind or something that would be paid -- and of course it never did. There was ALWAYS a catch of some kind -- oh they don't have the funding in the end. Oh there's other writers on the concept, too. Oh it fell through because the producer's A-list contact moved to Thailand. Then, a few years ago, I was emailing with a writer on this board (who doesn't frequent it anymore) and he told me he made a decision a year prior not to do ANYTHING for any producer, director, manager or anyone else in the industry for less than $2,000. And sure enough -- and I'll use his own words here, "It may be just a coincidence but since making that decision I optioned a script for $2,500 and got a paid writing assignment for $2,000." This convinced me. I then decided to do the same thing and I'm telling you the same thing happened to me. I set a minimum amount and sure enough GOT IT for a script option and actually got FIVE TIMES it for an assignment. I'm telling you -- if you decide you deserve to get paid, if you respect your own time and work/effort, if you decide your work is worth money, you WILL be paid for your work. It's a weird Oprah/Eckhart Tolle/The Secret thing that I never believed in until I had this experience with the aforementioned writer I was emailing with who made me change my ways.

                          I think this is the last I'll say on this matter ever on these forums -- probably to the relief of many I just get extremely frustrated seeing the same thing happen over and over again and seeing people in the industry take advantage of screenwriters' desperation.

                          Don't be desperate anymore.

                          Work hard.

                          Write what you love.

                          Decide you must be paid and you will be paid.

                          It's as simple as that.
                          You still have to do work to land a good job - nobody just calls and says "We'd like to offer you $100k to adapt this book/create this show, and you can come up with your take later, on our dime." Coming up with takes to land gigs is a cost of doing business. I got a pilot deal at Syfy recently, and that required pitch (exec) after pitch (producer) after pitch (studio) after pitch (network). It was a shitload of work, but it paid off. If I told that initial exec "pay me to come up with my take", that would be the end of it. But that's different than OP's situation, where a producer's slush fund is being dangled, and in my experience, they're a myth.
                          https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
                          http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Three writers for the same job

                            Yeah, so I found out the producer is not talking about paying out of a development fund. Apparently the project already has financing in place and the producer handling financing assures her that the money is there to pay writer's fees once they choose a writer.

                            Supposedly anyway.

                            Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
                            First off, congrats to EdFury! But see, that's what I was talking about earlier. The producer didn't pay EdFury himself, as OP was describing. Ed had to beat the other writers for the chance just to go pitch the star, then the studio, then the network, and only then is there pay. My caution to OP is not to trust this producer to pay anything out of pocket, despite talk of a development fund.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Three writers for the same job

                              Sorry, I'm a little lost.

                              This is a producer with a studio deal or indie or? And who's "she", one of the producers, your agent/manager?

                              I'm inclined to cautiously side with ProfessorChomp on this.

                              Oops, giving an example from my life, plug your ears if you don't want to hear it: Recently one of the films we sold was set to go into production. However, just weeks before it was set to go it was still up in the air whether or not financing would fall apart. It was literally down to the wire, production got pushed back a week. 30 mil budget.

                              I never count on money until the check's been cashed and in my bank for several weeks without bouncing. I'd believe it when I see it, is all.
                              DOPE CITY

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