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Old 01-25-2013, 05:30 PM   #71
WaitForIt
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Default Re: New prodco to focus on female directors and "strong roles for women"

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Originally Posted by sc111 View Post
If doors keep slamming in your face, you tend to wander into other fields. And with that the number of women trying to get work as directors or writers, dwindles eventually, no? Please don't use this number as proof women simply don't want to write or direct films
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Originally Posted by decarbe View Post
To say that women aren't interested in the film industry just doesn't ring true to me.
I'm going to quote myself from a previous post in this thread:
"I don't mean less interested as in "I don't want that occupation," but less interested as in "I would be happy in that occupation but I don't want to go down that road and make certain sacrifices."

Semantics, I suppose. And again, perception, and/or attitude, etc. etc.

Last edited by WaitForIt : 01-25-2013 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Fixed accidentally overzealous quote-snipping.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:38 PM   #72
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Default Re: New prodco to focus on female directors and "strong roles for women"

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Originally Posted by kintnerboy View Post
Anyone can submit a film to Sundance. There are no barriers. Women simply are not submitting).
To be fair, the above is not necessarily indicative of lack of interest, but could rather be indicative of lack of success, or some combination of both. Either women aren't trying or they're not succeeding at making films. Filmmaking costs money; it is possible that more women are trying to obtain funding and support and it's just not there. I wonder if there is anything beyond anecdotal evidence that this is the case. Seems like an issue ready-made for a piece of investigative journalism. Or a documentary, dun-dun-dunnn.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:43 PM   #73
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Default Re: New prodco to focus on female directors and "strong roles for women"

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Originally Posted by Richmond Weems View Post
Bvllsh!t.

I don't know what businesses you've been in, but, in my experience in the corporate environment, the only thing that matters is making money.

That's not to say that aren't a few goofball men and women who act as you say they act, but they also don't last long. I've seen plenty of executive women who were smart, capable, and were able to work alongside men without the men wondering what was in their underwear.

What I have seen, are low-level employees, in their 20s and early 30s, who liked to grab-a$$ and act like, well, guys and gals in their 20s and early 30s. But they learn, and grow up.

I've worked in and for advertising agencies and marketing groups. Where there are many writers, artists, designers and TV commercial directors. And I said nothing about men and women playing "grab ass." I said there is sexual tension. Read the post again.

However, back on the topic of women in film, here are some experiences shared by women directors:

Quote:
.... A few years ago, I won the same exact award for my own thesis film, the Student Emmy for Best Drama and Best Director. At the awards ceremony, I was approached by an equally heavy-hitting producer of an equally popular prime-time TV drama on Fox (alas, a different one). He was impressed with my thesis film, which had garnered the two top awards of the night. He also graciously invited me to come and visit the set of the show he was producing. I was allowed to shadow an episode he himself was directing for a day. During that visit, I asked about the opportunity to direct.

“Here’s the thing,” he said. “The lead actor hates female directors. We only had one in the first season, and she was never invited back. He just doesn’t like them.”

I’d like to live in a world where people are ashamed to say things like that, but for some reason it’s still OK. Take out the word “female” in that quote and substitute it with “black,” “Jewish,” or “gay. You may tolerate your grandpa spouting misogynist rhetoric at Thanksgiving with a roll of your eyes, but it’s simply not acceptable coming from people who hold the keys to prestigious and lucrative jobs.

entry c
ontinued here:
http://www.womendirectorsinhollywood.com/banging-my-head-against-the-hollywood-glass-ceiling/


Quote:
At the 2011 Cannes I had met with, and then re-met twice at the same market, two producers with a women-driven film concept:
The story told of four girls who row across the Atlantic in a rowboat, and the fallout that occurs when certain truths are revealed. The producers loved the footage from my recently shot film, METH HEAD, and they were very proactive about wanting to stay in touch, share their eventual script etc…

We wrote back and forth a few times during the year. They had lost their screenwriter, which had set them back. So I wasn’t surprised not to have a script to read to discuss. However, I did imagine we would at least meet and keep the conversation going in 2012. It appeared I was wrong. I couldn’t get them to respond to an e-mail request for a meeting. I thought it strange, but projects come and go, so I didn’t dwell on it.

Then I ran into one of the producers at a party. And she said how sorry she was they hadn’t responded, but that their sales agent, who was also partially funding their project, had told them flat-out that they would prefer a male director. In her words, women directors don’t sell either. And as quick as that, I was out of the running.
http://www.womendirectorsinhollywood.com/they-would-prefer-a-male-director/

Here's the editor of the same blog:

Quote:

I worked at a production company last year, and when I suggested to the (female) head that she might want to add some women to a director list, she said it would be too much of a struggle.

It’s so tragic that Hollywood pushes so hard against equal hiring practices in this day and age. Sad when even a woman won’t include other women on a tentative “ideas list.” I hope I’m able to hire more women directors as I work on beginning my own producing career.
http://www.womendirectorsinhollywood.com/women-execs-need-to-hire-women/


Another site with studies dating back over 10 years on this very topic. Some showing women directors have now lost ground: http://www.nywift.org/article.aspx?id=STAT

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Old 01-25-2013, 08:07 PM   #74
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Default Re: New prodco to focus on female directors and "strong roles for women"

Thank you, Sc111 for those links. I think it's just sad that some think there is no issue and or bias in Hollywood for women. When you add a minority group in the picture and it just becomes depressing to learn how harder things become for some, based on things that should be a non-issue.

I'd also like to say just because people can identify and understand the types of bias that exist doesn't mean they have to allow it to rule their every move, it just prepares them to not be surprised if they meet resistance.

I think production companies like this help address the issue. I refuse to believe or let anyone tell me that women just aren't good enough, don't work just as hard, or wouldn't work just as hard as men directors, writers, etc.

And, so we're clear I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of doing that, my comments are pretty general.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:29 PM   #75
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Default Re: New prodco to focus on female directors and "strong roles for women"

decarbe - you're welcome. Here are excerpts from a Nov. 2012 piece from the same blog I linked above:

Quote:
...Women directors in Hollywood have long been deeply concerned about the extraordinary disproportion in the ratio of male-to-female directors. According to Dr. Martha Lauzen (executive director of the Center for the Study of Women in Television and Film at San Diego State University), “There are more women in the U.S. Congress than there are women directors in Hollywood.” The numbers are so striking that even the most hardened skeptic must now stop and take note. Women are badly under-represented as directors of film and TV, while media is arguably America’s most culturally influential export around the globe....

... In recent decades, women have made great strides in many professions: in the military, government, the corporate world, and in universities where male-to-female professorships have been moving in the direction of more balanced ratios. In the film industry, however, the ratio of male-to-female working directors is more dismal than ever before, and the ratios certainly do not come close to reflecting the fact that women make up fifty-three percent of the population and a similar percentage of film school graduates. In episodic TV, women directors represent just twelve percent of working directors. In feature films, women make up a staggering five percent — ninety-five percent of feature films are helmed by men (Lauzen, 2011 Celluloid Ceiling)....

... Among the most surprising facts revealed by recent statistics is that while there are fewer women directors of feature films, there are more women executives than ever. It is not just men that must be convinced of the equality of talent between male and female directors, it is women executives and producers, too. Actor/Director Jodie Foster was recently quoted in The Mary Sue as saying, “And name the lists that come out of the female studio executives: guy, guy, guy, guy. Their job is to be as risk-averse as possible. They see female directors as a risk” (April 21, 2012)....

...Experts on diversity and discrimination, particularly in academia and science, often speak of the “Leaky Pipeline” in which the number of male and female students in college and graduate programs is roughly fifty-fifty, but after graduation women get lost in an ever-increasing number of leaks in the pipeline on the way to the top. Pursuing that metaphor, there are few industries in the United States with more leaks in their pipelines than that of the film industry. ...

The piece goes on to discuss the viability of a class action lawsuit against studios:

http://www.womendirectorsinhollywood.com/women-directors-can-we-sue-the-studios-2/
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:54 PM   #76
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Default Re: New prodco to focus on female directors and "strong roles for women"

I for one am disgusted by the disproportionate lack of male nannies. When will this egregious bias end? It's time to open some doors.

http://www.readthehorn.com/blogs/a_s...hildcare_roles
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:17 PM   #77
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Default Re: New prodco to focus on female directors and "strong roles for women"

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I for one am disgusted by the disproportionate lack of male nannies. When will this egregious bias end? It's time to open some doors.

http://www.readthehorn.com/blogs/a_s...hildcare_roles
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:16 AM   #78
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Default Re: New prodco to focus on female directors and "strong roles for women"

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Originally Posted by WaitForIt View Post
To be fair, the above is not necessarily indicative of lack of interest, but could rather be indicative of lack of success, or some combination of both. Either women aren't trying or they're not succeeding at making films. Filmmaking costs money; it is possible that more women are trying to obtain funding and support and it's just not there. I wonder if there is anything beyond anecdotal evidence that this is the case. Seems like an issue ready-made for a piece of investigative journalism. Or a documentary, dun-dun-dunnn.

The problem is, if you read the report that the LA Times article I linked was derived from

http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...e-barriers.pdf


It is half comprised of hard, documented facts (like the low percentage of women submitting films to Sundance) and half anecdotal evidence (like the anonymous survey respondent who said the reason women aren't submitting films is because the financing is controlled by the mostly male bankers, who won't lend women).

Of course, you could go to the banks and ask what percentage of loan applications are made by women (again, hard, documented facts)
but then some other anonymous survey respondent would tell you that most women lack the courage to ask for money, because they've been raised in a patriarchal society and lack confidence (this is not me saying these things, I'm repeating what's in the report by the Womens Filmmakers Initiative).

So basically, it's an unwinnable argument.

The truth is that the world can be a cruel, unfair place. It's full of politics and nepotism and coercion and bribery.

But for the most part, it's a meritocracy. Do great work and you will be noticed.

I'm glad that I am a white male, so I know that the only bias out there is against my crappy writing.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:42 AM   #79
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Default Re: New prodco to focus on female directors and "strong roles for women"

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I've worked in and for advertising agencies and marketing groups. Where there are many writers, artists, designers and TV commercial directors. And I said nothing about men and women playing "grab ass." I said there is sexual tension. Read the post again.
I did read the post right the first time. You're the one that took it out of Hollywood and made sweeping generalizations. From that post:

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Originally Posted by sc111 View Post
Because men prefer to work with other men.

Why? I guess we can ask the guys but, in my experience as a woman in business, they seem to feel they have to be on guard when women are around. They seem distracted. Women in a room where multimillion dollar business is being conducted seem to mess up the men's Tao, for lack of better word. Maybe it's because they have to stop themselves from wondering if we're wearing underwear or something. Or, maybe they're concerned we're wondering what's in their underwear (and sometimes we might be). Whatever it is, it's definitely a factor. And it distracts them from the very important work being discussed.

So they choose -- either consciously or unconsciously -- to hire and work with other men. And white men prefer to work with other white men. And this is called: institutional discrimination.
And, as a guy, I responded. Your whole thesis there is without proof, but I refer to the statement in bold, which is blatantly false and ridiculous. I've been in too many meetings with executives to think this is remotely true. The only thing that messes up the "Tao" is incompetence, whether from a man or a woman. And, despite our desire to think incompetence gets rewarded, it generally doesn't. Not in the corporation.

I have no idea if there's discrimination against women in Hollywood. My feeling is that there probably is, and that feeling's based on the product that's put out. But that's all it is: a feeling.

As far as the links you provided, though I agree with the sentiments, it's not really an impassioned article(s) on the subject. It's a blog, and not much different from anything written by writers, or any other aggrieved Hollywood party.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:50 AM   #80
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Default Re: New prodco to focus on female directors and "strong roles for women"

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And, as a guy, I responded. Your whole thesis there is without proof, but I refer to the statement in bold, which is blatantly false and ridiculous. I've been in too many meetings with executives to think this is remotely true. The only thing that messes up the "Tao" is incompetence, whether from a man or a woman. And, despite our desire to think incompetence gets rewarded, it generally doesn't. Not in the corporation.
You're making your own sweeping generalisations too here, you're experience doesn't sum up everybody else's.

You don't think it's remotely true, fair play given what you've seen. That doesn't make it factually untrue.

I've seen just the sort of behaviour SC111 talks about, I've spoken to many women who've experienced it and share her views. My reality isn't wrong, yours isn't wrong, hers isn't wrong, they just clearly differ.
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