Writers looking for quick INs - let's discuss

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  • #31
    Not Abrasive, Protective At All

    To ScrLife

    You're just being a realist. I can certainly appreciate that.
    Think we all can. Love the mag, too. Wish it was a monthly.

    The worst is to finish a script and learn that your concept is already being developed almost verbatim. I can take pretty much anything else.

    ros

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    • #32
      New Thread

      Thanks again for all the great debate. I also started the new threat that was suggested "When should you send out your script." Please add your posts. Passers by are also encouraged to leave a post.

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      • #33
        Re: re: the goods

        Ricky â€"

        On the face of it, I'd say that the "Why not…?" attitude is what many people take issue with. It's a kind of assumption that if I'm going to get rewritten anyway, why should I really sweat the details? But, as they say, the Devil is in the details.

        I think it goes to people really understanding what it takes to make a career out of screenwriting. Sure, there are people who's ideas are so rock-solid that when they get rewritten it's no skin off their backs. But being able to hone an idea to that razor-sharpness comes from having written. A lot.

        Basically, I see it this way â€" if a person isn't after a career in screenwriting, then he should get out of the way so that those who are can get a fair shake. I know everyone here would say that they're after a career, but more often than not I have to wonder.

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        • #34
          Re: re: the goods

          sorry Pcon... I don't mean to offend anyone...

          my Why not in my mind is more towards if you get it as good as you can staring at it won't help... it's not like a video game and when you reach a point level you are awarded the next level in writing you can write and write and write but unless you find out what you are missing you can't improve ... to find out what you are missing you need more eyes on it then just yours.

          What is too soon .. I can write something to best of my ability and see nothing wrong .... and someone with more experience ... different point of view... just a fresh set of eyes can look at it and say ... I see a problem here ... why did you send this out...

          I play chess.. if you are playing someone you beat every time you don't learn anything...

          I think we I wrote that reply ... I was racking my brain in a rewrite ... how can I say this better ... if he carries this .. the visual is already there I don't need to say this .. or that.. ..

          you know ... trying to make the dialog better .. after a while .. I just had to stop .. because the words started blending together...

          Then I think.. here I am racking my brain .. beating my head on the wall .. and if I get this done and by a stroke of god able to sell.. someone is going to walk in sit down and change enough to get his name on it ... I turn off the computer, saying what am I doing ... walk out of the house .. go to a movie... read a book ... something different ..

          and the next thing you know .. I'm back on the computer staring at the same screen .. taking a deep breath .. just begging for more punishment saying .. go ahead .. hit me again

          I don't know I'm rambling here ... I better go get another transfusion of life and hit it again ... as I outline the next blockbuster .. (well okay .. to me it's a blockbuster)

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          • #35
            Learning Curve

            This is the learning curve I went through (and I'm still on it). At first, a story idea would hit me, and I could compellingly tell it in 3 - 5 minutes. However, when I sat down to write it, I couldn't sustain the energy. My stories kept falling off a cliff. Then through books, classes and talking with other, more experienced screenwriters, I began to learned about and understand story structure. Once again, I found excitement and began to turn out pages. Then I realized that my dialogue sucked. Finally, I was told to get into a scene as late as possible and get out of it as fast as possible: get the information out and go. I learned to cut all the "Hi, how are you" character to character introductions and other time wasters that don't move the story forward. Again, it was exciting to go back through my scripts and punch-up the dialogue. Through that, I began to learn more about structure and how character is structure and structure is character. After all, a story is about a character's choices and the choices define the journey.

            Then I started sending my scripts out, and the feedback was cutting. There was a whole new set of rules (so it seemed). My clean structure was too obvious. Not enough twists to hold their attention: the story just went in this straight line. I had finally gotten dialogue and action to come off as interesting, but in today's marketplace, where people have seen thousands of stories, you have to take it to another level to keep their interest. So back again I went, only I no longer go back to my old stories to try and make them better, I tackle new stories. However, the writing was strong enough that I have a sizeable circle of producers and production companies who are open to anything new that I write.

            That's been my curve to date. I'm still learning and still pushing on. But none of this necessarily leads to a sale. Selling is a whole different animal, but at least I feel that I'm part way there. I've had things optioned. Had talent attached. Had money people (real money) ready to back my scripts, but other factors killed the project. So good writing does not automatically mean it will sell. Maybe that's an issue we could discuss.

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            • #36
              Re: Learning Curve

              Ricky â€"

              No offense taken. I totally understand that point of view. As it happens, I couldn't care less how many people are sending stuff out. It doesn't affect how I approach my career as a writer. My plan is (and always has been) to write at least 8 scripts before I consider sending out anything. It's a totally arbitrary number, of course, but judging by how much my writing has improved from the first to the fourth, another four scripts should be just about enough to make me not suck.

              In the end, it's all relative. As ScrLife points out so neatly, once he sent his work out and got crushed, he realized that he was being compared to different standards than he had been before. And that's always a surprise. It's changing the rules half-way through the game, but it's life in the big time.

              I happen to be one of the lucky few that's close friends with a pro reader and when I think I have something that's worth her time, I can get an industry-approved answer right away. Can't beat that.

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              • #37
                Coverage Sites

                What do you think of using coverage services as a means to "make you stuff not suck"? Maybe I should start this as another new thread.

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                • #38
                  Re: Coverage Sites

                  I think the point of sending out stuff too soon is that it can inadvertently give the wrong impression of the writer.

                  Writing like art (and only in that respect) is an individual occupation. You strive for excellence in the work you love.
                  Sending out material that is not ready says that this writer hasn't done the necessary homework to qualify in the market place.

                  Which will also inadvertently lead to the next time a script comes across the desk of someone looking for good scripts who sees the name of the same writer that sent that shite will pass on looking, or look at it with a jaundiced eye.

                  That's my feeling on putting something out there before it's ready. You know I have all these scripts, but only a couple appear even half ready to show to someone who could move them. So they stay in re-write till I get enough of those "scripts okay but you dropped a word, or the commas were in the wrong place."

                  Multiple reads help everyone as do multiple opinions, but when it becomes nothing more than small things, I think that's the time to start thinking about having it read professionally, then sending it. That last crital view could save you embarrassment and might possibly ensure an "in."

                  I'm learning that having a critical eye like some on done deal and finding someone to really give a damn about how you present your scripts - showing you how to improve is one the greatest assets anyone could have in this industry.

                  Right now I think the best advice for a struggling writer would be find someone (or they may find you) who's experienced, been where you want to go, and follow their lead.

                  justmy2

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                  • #39
                    Re: Coverage Sites

                    To me, it comes down to this â€" what's the harm in waiting? Why is it so blessed important to get that first script out there? Since so many of us understand that writing, like anything else, takes time to master, why is there even a discussion about waiting?

                    Seems silly to me. But maybe I'm just cranky today.

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                    • #40
                      Always too soon

                      When is too soon to start marketing? Great question.

                      Much of the time, I think the debate stems from having a modicum of natural ability and not enough time spent honing it. Like the kid who can throw 100 mile-an-hour fast balls - right at the batter's head and no where else. Is it great that he can throw that fast with God-given ability? Sure. Will it get him a big league contract without some skill and control? No way. Can that control be learned? Perhaps.

                      The same applies to screenwriting.

                      I have read plenty of scripts (my own included) that were brimming with potential but wouldn't sell in a million years. The sad fact of the matter is most people trying to break into this field will never make it and in the process will drive people like myself crazy eliciting advice they will never follow. Even if they have some natural ability, their ego will never stand aside long enough for their screenwriting to improve. It takes a lot more than the ability to put words on page after page to build a career in screenwriting. At least, that has been my impression from all the many great debates on this board.

                      It is my understanding that it takes no small amount of humility and the ability to totally disconnect yourself from something you have spent months and years creating. Is there any doubt that once a script is sold that it is no longer yours? The producer and director and actors may change the thing in part or in total and you won't have a thing to say about it? I have come to the conclusion that making this connection between wannabe dreamer and hard pragmatist has been my single biggest step toward a career in screenwriting in the near future. I have learned to disconnect and been able to take some fairly harsh criticism in the pursuit of making my scripts better.

                      Which brings me back to the topic of this thread. When is it too soon to send out a script? It always too soon until you can make that basic leap in understanding from wannabe fan to un-paid professional. You could have the best spec script ever written, but if you go into the process as a whiny little turd, your "career" will end before it ever begins.

                      Jason

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                      • #41
                        Re: Always too soon

                        When is it too soon to send out a script? It always too soon until you can make that basic leap in understanding from wannabe fan to un-paid professional.
                        I agree with this.

                        to totally disconnect yourself from something you have spent months and years creating. Is there any doubt that once a script is sold that it is no longer yours?...I have come to the conclusion that making this connection between wannabe dreamer and hard pragmatist has been my single biggest step toward a career in screenwriting in the near future.
                        Well put. I agree IF by disconnect you mean take criticism. You have to be careful though, because if you completely 'disconnect' there's no point in writing. Good, decent criticism should actually help you connect to your material at a greater, deeper level.
                        As far as not being involved once it's sold, I've seen it go both ways for writers.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Always too soon

                          That is exactly what I mean.

                          Criticism for most people is a bitter pill, nearly impossible to swallow. They will spend hours explaining to you why didn't "get it" or why your opinion is wrong, rather than look at what the criticism is and honestly decide whether it applies to their script. They will read a spec script from William Goldman written in 1985 and say, "See, he breaks all of your rules!" They will quote each and every person who ever told them their script was good, rather than accept the possibility that it needs work. In most cases, a lot of work.

                          Case in point, I recently helped a "friend" by reading a script. It was really the most novelistic piece of writing I had read in a long time. I didn't make it past page one, but since it was a friend, I spent about two hours rewriting the first five pages to get them into a form that even remotely resembles screenplay form. I didn't even mess with the story; I simply concentrated on the syntax and word choice.

                          What did I get for my trouble? An entire sermon on why what I was saying was wrong, this was all my opinion and that isn't her "style" of writing. Then the discussion turned personal and down-right ugly. Most new writers seem forever convinced that if someone bad mouths their script it is "an opinion" and subject to agreement or disagreement. In matter of story and character I would agree. When it comes to the very basics of "show don't tell" and crisp, clean sentence structure with engaging and entertaining dialogue, there are more than enough objective standards to take those things out of the realm of opinion and put them into the books of fact.

                          Someone said most writers just want a "mutual adoration" society. I about choked on my coffee. Another one was about a producer throwing a script at them! Talk about having to take a bad critique as a pro. There is little doubt in my mind that once a script is sold or even well before that point, the easiest way to halt dead in your tracks is to be so enamored with your own stuff that you can't imagine anything is wrong with it.

                          A fate worse that hubris in my book.

                          Great debate.

                          Jason

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                          • #43
                            Re: Always too soon

                            I understand Bill M's point, though. A friend told me to not bother seeing Phone Booth so I forgot about it, then I found the script on the net - - it's awful, really. It's hard to imagine how it got past the first reading let alone produced. These are the scripts that have people thinking, 'I can do better.'

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