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  • #16
    Re: Word count

    I will divide this post into two parts:

    (1) No one is saying that you should count words or shoot for a certain number of words. All I am saying is that word count can be used to overcome the huge variation in the number of pages that occurs with "nonstandard" formatting. This is especially true when the writer uses Word or a font that is not designed to conform with "standard" line spacing for screenplays.

    (2) I suspect that a huge collection of scripts, with formatting that is close to what we call normal, would run about 190-195 words per page. This rests on the assumption that the writer uses a professional script writer, like Final Draft, MMS, or Fade In Pro, with the default settings.

    If you want to participate in our little poll, you can post your average words per page, and I will add each to the list below. We will only do this for a week or two, until everyone gets tired of it. Please count pages to the nearest half or third of a page. If you are not using FD, MMS, or Fade In Pro, provide the program that you used, because I might need to run a separate list for things like Celtx, Word, etc. I don't know yet. Also, if you are using personalized settings for your scriptwriting software, please note that, too. (Ordinarily I use personalized settings, but for my average below I used the FD defaults.)

    This poll is not scientific, but it ought to provide some valid information.

    Here is our list so far:

    Average number of words per page

    Ten Scripts from Zoetrope
    Average was: 194

    IGetsBuckets
    187

    Hacque
    190

    ComicBent
    196

    Your average ...

    "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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    • #17
      Re: Word count

      FYI - A recent Nicholl finalist, "A Many Splintered Thing", was 103 pages, with a word/page avg of 230. Huh???

      Well, they had >60 lines/page. IIRC, some pages had 66 lines. It looked like they set the whole thing on extra-tight.

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      • #18
        Re: Word count

        Originally posted by Manchester View Post
        FYI - A recent Nicholl finalist, "A Many Splintered Thing", was 103 pages, with a word/page avg of 230. Huh???

        Well, they had >60 lines/page. IIRC, some pages had 66 lines. It looked like they set the whole thing on extra-tight.
        Ugh, this is something I'm struggling with. Currently, I'm at 230/page with "normal" density in FD. But I'm writng a sci-fi set 1000 years in the future. EVERYTHING needs a description.
        I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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        • #19
          Re: Word count

          Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
          No one is saying that you should count words or shoot for a certain number of words.
          Then we're on the same page.

          Here's a blog post that covers the same topic, using a number of blacklist scripts and well-known specs.

          http://sprintingtofadeout.wordpress....aw-part-three/

          My most recent spec, for the record, was 190 WPP.
          The one before that, which got me repped/optioned, was 191 WPP.

          But that's probably just my voice/style. It does fall neatly inside the averages you mentioned, but as the above blog post points out, the range is just so huge that it's not worth counting this as a "rule." There's way too much variance. It's far better to develop your voice than to allow it to be muddied by aiming for a certain word count.
          Last edited by Knaight; 09-16-2013, 11:58 PM.
          QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

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          • #20
            Re: Word count

            Word count is a tool to be used in the rewriting process. Mainly by beginning writers who think they have a great script. This tool tells them if they’re outside the norm, it may be an indication they may have a problem (underwritten or overwritten) and need to take a closer look.

            Personally, I’ve never counted words. Counting words is a waste of time and energy. The page count tells you that if you’re outside the norm of 90 to 120 pages it MAY BE an indication that you’ve underwritten or overwritten, or you’re not using the right type, format, margins, etc.

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            • #21
              Re: Word count

              Here are the Final Draft reports for my two scripts.
              First script 182 wwp
              Second script 183 wpp

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              • #22
                Re: Word count

                Okay, if Comic Bent is keeping score, let me add the hi/lo for the 170 to 230 number I mentioned in post #13:

                John August - The Nines - 170 words/page
                Trent Haaga - Deadgirl - 233 words/page

                And if it matters, I counted (well, I let the computer count for me) only from FADE IN to FADE OUT and divided by the number of script pages.

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                • #23
                  Re: Word count

                  I looked up some stats I'd filed away for the Knock-Up script, then did the word-number calcs:

                  Pages: 139
                  Words: 24,747
                  Words/page: 178

                  But, 2 caveats.

                  Caveat #1: While a normal number of lines/page is about 55, this script (which Universal posted on its website) has about 64 lines/page. Doing the math, that means a normalized page count would be (approx) 161 pages. And in turn, that would mean only 154 words/page. But then that leads to...

                  Caveat #2: That script is a post-production script. Every word of dialogue on the page is actually said on screen. (I.e., every word said on the screen was transcribed to the page.) OTOH, the action writing in that version of the script is oddly sparse - though that makes sense (Doh!) since there's little need for detailed action writing after the movie's been released.

                  And so for Knocked-Up, it's:

                  (a) 178 words/page
                  (b) 154 words/page
                  (c) Neither of the above

                  Oh, and "The Artist" has an average of 350 words/page.

                  IOW, word-count stats may be interesting... but kinda in the way a patient's set of symptoms is interesting in Act I (or maybe, II) of an episode of House.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Word count

                    Updating our count ...

                    Average number of words per page

                    Ten Scripts from Zoetrope
                    Average was: 194 (Count as one)

                    IGetsBuckets
                    187

                    Hacque
                    190

                    ComicBent
                    196

                    Foxhound
                    230

                    Knaight
                    190

                    Lodestone
                    183

                    August
                    170

                    Haaga
                    233

                    Total 9 scripts ... Total words per page: 1773.
                    Average at this point: 1773/9 = 197 words per page.

                    NOTES:

                    1. I left out the Nicholl Finalist's script, because Manchester said that it squeezed in a lot of extra lines. 230 or so words per page is really not a statistical outlier; it is possible to hit 230 words pretty easily. (Note that I included Foxhound's 230 words per page.) However, a script that is squeezing in at least 60 lines per page has to be disqualified for this study. I am assuming that Manchester was not counting things like CONTINUED: that lie outside the normal upper and lower margins of about 1".

                    2. Something like The Artist (wasn't that the silent film?) is so different that it does not fall into the same category of scripts that we are considering here.

                    3. For God's sake, I hope no one thinks that we are proposing a physical count of words. Use the software.

                    Thanks to Knaight for the link. I will check it out. I would still like to hear what kinds of word counts you guys are getting in your own scripts.

                    EDIT TO ADD: I checked out the link. The results of that study are almost exactly the same as what we are getting: something between about 190-200 words per page.
                    Last edited by ComicBent; 09-17-2013, 10:41 AM.

                    "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Word count

                      Looks like I'm right around the average. Just calculated one of mine - my other scripts aren't in English, so not counting those - and it came out to 196 wpp.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Word count

                        Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
                        3. For God's sake, I hope no one thinks that we are proposing a physical count of words.
                        Like this?

                        Originally posted by Flubugg View Post
                        Looks like I'm right around the average. Just calculated one of mine - my other scripts aren't in English, so not counting those - and it came out to 196 wpp.
                        I wonder if some German-language scripts are, like, 12 words per page. 12 really long words.

                        OTOH, in German, line-wrap must be a killer; especially in dialogue. "So Franz, how many lines of dialogue you have?" "Four." "Wow. What are they about?" "Oh, I just say, 'Hey, I think it's snowing.'"

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                        • #27
                          Re: Word count

                          Originally posted by ComicBent View Post

                          EDIT TO ADD: I checked out the link. The results of that study are almost exactly the same as what we are getting: something between about 190-200 words per page.
                          The average is definitely coming out there. As a math geek, I think that's cool. However, in the interest if encouraging people to write as well as possible, I think it's really important to continue to point out how broad the range actually is. 190-200 is the middle range, but it doesn't appear to be the top of a bell curve or representative of most scripts. The spread is pretty wide.
                          QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Word count

                            So with Flubugg at 196, our average comes to:

                            (1773 + 196) / 10 = 197

                            Knaight, I think the top of the bell curve will probably be somewhere close to our average. If we can get some more input from our members, I will calculate all the stats and see if we have a standard distribution. I don't want to do it without more data.

                            This is kinda fun!

                            Flubugg, I like your name. That is pretty cool.

                            Manchester, you have piqued my curiosity about how the German:English words-per-page ratio would work out. Actually, I think it would be very close. Unlike English, German uses compound words regularly instead of leaving people to scratch their heads about whether the words are written separately or as one word. Still, I doubt the difference in words per page would be great.

                            When I was at the university many years ago, I took German for a good many years. One of the faculty members in the department was an Italian who taught Romance languages. One semester he took German. I think he pretty much gave up, though, when he encountered the word Geschwindigkeitsbegrenzung (speed limit).

                            "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Word count

                              Originally posted by ComicBent View Post

                              Knaight, I think the top of the bell curve will probably be somewhere close to our average. If we can get some more input from our members, I will calculate all the stats and see if we have a standard distribution. I don't want to do it without more data.
                              I would really like to see this. I also think it would be useful (perhaps even moreso) to do the same thing with specs that have had some success in jumpstarting careers, since that's what most of the people on this forum are trying to do.

                              And I do agree that the top of whatever curve there is would be near that average. My point was just that I don't expect the curve to be very bell-like. There seems to be enough distribution that it will be much more flat than that.
                              QUESTICLES -- It's about balls on a mission.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Word count

                                I'm joining Foxhound at the higher end of the count... 224 wpp for me.
                                "Writing is easy. All you do is sit staring at a blank sheet of paper until drops of blood form on your forehead"... Gene Fowler

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