Star Wars Ep 8

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  • #16
    Re: Star Wars Ep 8

    meh. too much of too much. the best thing about the new trilogy is Rey and very little in Last Jedi serves her character especially well. in the end, i just don't care what happens to any of them anymore.

    (also, that's not how the vacuum of space works at all)

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    • #17
      Re: Star Wars Ep 8

      Originally posted by moviefan View Post
      It's time for older Star Wars fans to accept time has moved on and new Star Wars is never going to be like the original trilogy. I watched ANH with a video cassette recorder, people will watch TLJ via streaming or DVD/Bluray. Times have moved on, Star Wars fans!
      It's got nothing to do with letting go of the old, I would prefer if the OT characters weren't in this at all.

      It's got everything to do with poor story structure and character development.

      I mean Luke, the guy who destroyed 2 death stars and had so much faith in the light side of the force that he saved his father - the second most evil man in the galaxy, is supposed to actually want to kill his nephew - the son of his sister and his best friend, because he might in the future be evil????

      Sorry but, no, no and a big fat NO.

      Rian has done an absolutely appalling job and there is a reason why the audience reviews are dropping like a rock with this film.

      Don't get wow'ed by the VFX or the fact it's Star Wars, the story and character dynamics are totally out of whack on this film and history is going to be VERY unkind to it, arguably the worst Star Wars film ever made.

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      • #18
        Re: Star Wars Ep 8

        Well, the rotten tomatoes audience score for this is below the Justice League's. There is a bit of after glow effect for Star Wars films where I try hard to love it (Phantom Menace, Force Awakens, Rogue One)... it's only upon watching it several times that I come to my real feelings about it. Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi look even greater now upon repeat viewing.

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        • #19
          Re: Star Wars Ep 8

          I loved it but I know better than to start debating Star Wars. All I will say is that if people don't like it because of creative decisions then I can almost understand. But if you don't enjoy it because of structural issues etc then I really don't understand as everything in it had a purpose and all the characters had clear, meaningful arcs. For a two and a half hour film it never once felt like it was dragging to me.

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          • #20
            Re: Star Wars Ep 8

            I FEEL YOUR ANGER!

            I read the synopsis on wikipedia, I'm not spending money on this. After the joke force awakens, who really cares? Everything in TFA was fast forwarded. What up Ardt and Kasdan? Then you give the writing and directing duties to the guy who directed Looper?

            I mean a bad guy named Snoke, you can't really take a movie seriously can you? But it's all fantasy. Sci-Fi. Yeah, I get it. Sure we all want to be Rian. Guess I'll just keep on taking classes and attending film festivals like Austin. Maybe in a galaxy, far, far away they'll be another great star wars movie. Maybe not.

            I heard Kylo holds off on destroying a ship because his mother is on it. HE KILLED HIS FATHER, WHY WOULD HE CARE??!?!? Nevermind.










            Originally posted by Captain Jack Sparrow View Post
            I saw it and was really disappointed, the more I think about it, the more I disliked it.

            *spoilers below*

            I agree with Mark Hamill in that every character decision they made regarding Luke in writing this is fundamentally wrong. Rian Johnson clearly does not understand who Luke was.

            Snoke is the worst antagonist in Star Wars history, they built the guy up for 1.5 films for nothing.

            Rey being a nobody is another underwhelming resolution.

            Critics are lapping this film up but audience reacton is totally split.

            I really think this sequel trilogy was damanged beyond repair by TFA, which failed to set up a believable world or progression of characters from the OT. It is clear that no one has any idea where to take this, certainly JJ never did and I suspect Rian just figured he best kill off Snoke quick because there's no explanation for any of this.

            I really generally hate that Disney have nullified the OT with these lacklustre sequels.

            Still, it has a Star Wars label on it and is competently put together so it will do well, but in story terms this series is in a death spiral.
            I will not fall into despair! I will keep myself hearty, till freedom is opportune!

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            • #21
              Re: Star Wars Ep 8

              Word-of-mouth seems mostly negative. I guess after the new car smell of TFA has worn off and Rogue One had no impact whatsoever, it looks like people are starting to see Eisnercorp's Star Wars for what it is: a cynical parody of the originals.

              I saw a clip where Rey hands Luke his lightsaber and he tosses it over his shoulder and walks away. Is that something that would actually happen in that situation? Of course not. Even a disillusioned hermit would be thrilled to be given such an important object that had changed his life in such a profound way. This scene was written solely to get a laugh from the audience.

              George Lucas may have his problems as a writer, but at least he takes it seriously. The new generation of writers- meaning those influenced by Tarantino and *gag* Whedon- treats everything as a riff. Everything has to be meta, cutesy, and snarky. The audience is there to be toyed with, and scenes are written to pander to their expected responses instead of being written to tell the story.

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              • #22
                Re: Star Wars Ep 8

                people are starting to see Eisnercorp's Star Wars for what it is: a cynical parody of the originals
                Yes, I think that that's exactly right. Indeed, the only reason that these films are making any $ is due to the brand.

                I already considered The Mary-Sue Awakens -- excuse me, The Force Awakens -- to be by far the weakest Star Wars film ever, so to hear (as I am hearing from people whose opinions I trust, and who loathed TFA as much as I did) that this one is even worse makes me certain that I will not see it.

                Originally posted by Captain Jack Sparrow View Post
                Rian has done an absolutely appalling job and there is a reason why the audience reviews are dropping like a rock with this film.
                That is the real story surrounding this worthless piece of filmmaking -- the ever-growing discrepancy between critical and audience reactions.

                Let's ignore, for the moment, the supposition that the critics are either being paid off by Disney, or simply wish to give Disney films good reviews in order to stay in the company's good graces (both being very real possibilities).

                Factoring out those eventualities, what we are seeing is the result of a complete lack of diversity in film reviewing. No, not the crude, skin-color or gender metric of diversity that one always hears about, but rather, a lack of ideological diversity.

                Film critics, like most of industry, arrive at their job with a very particular viewpoint, and will enthuse over a film as long as it satisfies their ideological bent. And even if some chunk of the audience agrees with that viewpoint, a great portion does not. Ergo, I expect that we'll be seeing these critic/audience divergences ever more frequently, going forward.

                And what makes that so unfortunate is the fact that it likely means that films that would satisfy the other part of the audience -- those whose views and tastes are not represented by the critics or the people who run the industry today -- never get made. And those few that do get made (e.g. Passengers) don't get seen at all, because of critical derision.

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                • #23
                  Re: Star Wars Ep 8

                  I think you raise a excellent point about the ideological bias of critics Karsten. The new Star Wars films have a clear left-leaning viewpoint (the writers admit as much) and that tends to get embraced by critics despite the failings of the film.

                  It's interesting you mention Passengers because I also found that an enjoyable film yet it got mauled by critics and I imagine the same ones who hated Passengers because of supposed sexism likely embrace the new 'diverse' Star Wars, but what good is diversity when there is no diversity of thought?

                  If the writers spent more time figuring out their characters and plot rather than trying to make political points with the subtleness of a sledgehammer (I still recall the cringe-worthy tweets by Whitta and co.) then maybe these would be better films that would stand the test of time. Sadly though, they won't.

                  I really think Star Wars will now descend into a Marvel-like mess of bubble-gum blockbusters. Never thought I'd say it but I wish they'd gone with Lucas' sequels.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Star Wars Ep 8

                    If we want to be so hermetically sealed with every film is absolutely politically correct, a lot of the great films of the past wouldn't make it past the development phase.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Star Wars Ep 8

                      Disney only churns out light-hearted fare. Watched TFA, hated it; All the brilliant expanded universe thrown out the window for some derivative crap. Very reluctant to catch TLJ in theaters.

                      Worse is Disney is buying over Fox? omg, Disney in charge of the Alien and Predator franchises? What a joke.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Star Wars Ep 8

                        Originally posted by Goliath View Post
                        Disney only churns out light-hearted fare. Watched TFA, hated it; All the brilliant expanded universe thrown out the window for some derivative crap. Very reluctant to catch TLJ in theaters.

                        Worse is Disney is buying over Fox? omg, Disney in charge of the Alien and Predator franchises? What a joke.
                        Look on the bright side, you'll get cute little aliens and predators that will be available as plush toys and ride the new Alien v. predator ride.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Star Wars Ep 8

                          Terrible movie made by incompetent people. Feels like a series of commercials on an amusement park ride.

                          Do yourself a favor and do not watch.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Star Wars Ep 8

                            The Star Wars films - the originals included - are not great examples of coherent cause and effect narrative. For example: Many Star Wars fans rate The Empire Strikes Back as the best movie in the franchise, however, you could argue its story premise makes no sense. The Empire is defeated at the end of A New Hope, the Death Star is destroyed, Vader manages to escape.

                            TESB starts with the Empire stronger than the Rebellion. Indeed, the Rebellion is so weak it's in hiding. The Empire has lots of shiny new spaceships and they have no problem attacking Hoth. The Rebellion flee the planet. No explanation was given how the Empire recovered so easily:

                            Opening text:

                            It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy.
                            You could argue the beginning of Empire should have been the other way - the Rebel forces are chasing the remaining Imperial troops. Would make more story sense? The Death Star was destroyed - it was the main Imperial base - so the Empire would have to be weaker at the start of Empire, not stronger. JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan repeated this lazy storytelling device at the start of TFA - The First Order are more powerful than the Resistance despite zero backstory! No credible explanation how The First Order came to power. You'd need a TFA prequel movie to explain that.

                            Disney has taken the superficial plotting of Star Wars to the nth degree. Rey has full Jedi power in TFA hence why she can defeat Kylo Ren in the third act but this is contradicted in TLJ when Rey wants Luke to train her. She needs training? She was strong enough in TFA!


                            SPOILERS

                            Leia has never shown any strong Jedi power. I think there was casual reference in Return of the Jedi but at no point in ROTJ does she use her Jedi power to help the Ewoks defeat the Empire. In TLJ she is sucked into the vacuum of space and can use her untapped Jedi power to fly back into the ship. It's completely out of story context, makes no sense (did Leia even know she had the ability to fly through space? LOL!) but we have to accept it cos this is a new Star Wars movie and anything goes.
                            Last edited by moviefan; 12-18-2017, 02:58 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Star Wars Ep 8

                              SPOILER...




                              A post earlier mentioned writers playing riffs and audience reaction. To a point that is ok, but just like any "musician" it's about knowing when to play what. Leia feels like a case of that when and when not. It seems like her getting blown out of the ship and on the sidelines was a huge miss. Us fans in the real world know what happened with Carrie. We know this is her swan song. Her last movie. Her moment of crescendo. But we don't get it. Instead we get a cheaply tricked by thinking her fictional demise came at a strong story moment of Kylo making a choice not to shoot but here comes his allies shooting away. Boom. Out in space. Turmoil. Conflict. And I'm just riffing here... have him see her. Have hiim shed a freaking tear. Have a mind meld. Have a moment. Idk... do something for God's sake other than have her Peter Pan herself back into the ship for NOTHING!!!!! Just to lay in bed... wait.... suddenly wake up and then... and then.... DO NOTHING!!!!!! That being said, she should have been the one to lightspeed that cruiser up Snoke's ass. And that should have been the moment Snoke's all powerful concentration waned just enough for Kylo to take him out. His mother saved him. His mother enabled him to become even darker. Layers. But layers that can be seen. Not these hidden psuedo layers modern writers think they are giving us.

                              Anyway... Kids will love it. SJW's will love it. It will sell toys. It will make everybody feel good. But that's not what the OT was about despite the obvious holes in it. I won't even try to explain what makes those movies magical other than knowing when to play the notes and when not to. You either get it... or you don't. Maybe that's true in this case for the new movies, but I'll be happy to sit back and let somebody explain to me the reasons why these new movies are good (great?). I'll be happy to hear about character psychology and logic based choices or the inevitablity of those choices. Tell me about the great set ups and payoffs that will resound through time and we'll still be saying it 40 years from now. Tell me about the chills that went down your spine. When you smiled because you saw a genuine moment. When you saw magic happen because the actors knew who these characters were (I love you. I know). I'll sit back and wait for somebody to tell me.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Star Wars Ep 8

                                Originally posted by moviefan View Post
                                The Star Wars films - the originals included - are not great examples of coherent cause and effect narrative. For example: Many Star Wars fans rate The Empire Strikes Back as the best movie in the franchise, however, you could argue its story premise makes no sense. The Empire is defeated at the end of A New Hope, the Death Star is destroyed, Vader manages to escape.

                                TESB starts with the Empire stronger than the Rebellion. Indeed, the Rebellion is so weak it's in hiding. The Empire has lots of shiny new spaceships and they have no problem attacking Hoth. The Rebellion flee the planet. No explanation was given how the Empire recovered so easily:
                                Maybe? I get what you're saying about leaps of faith here but it seems Old Ben mentions the Empire in Star Wars and we also get a couple throwaway lines from Tarkin that suggest the Death Star is an untried and untested prototype in its first assignment. It is not called a base. It is called a battle station. Thus the leap in faith is after Yavin, the celebration is brief but they know that their location is compromised. Time to move.

                                The scrawl pre Empire suggests the Empire has sent probes across the galaxy. We get to see a probe land on Hoth. Chewy blasts it, but the Empire knows. This all feels like story beats are building. I'm not going to suggest there isn't forced moments. "You must go to Dagobah." Stuff like that. But that's mythology built around already established groundwork. "Your father was a jedi."

                                I'm not trying to defend the old stuff too much, as I'm sure discssions can go deep in both directions, but my point is that there is a thread weaving behind the OT that seems lacking in this new stuff. There's a archplot that combines the trilogy.

                                Maybe this new stuff will manage to pull it all together, but somehow I think these writers haven't placed the grommets in order to pull the boot together at the end. We shall see.

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