Click here for Done Deal Pro home page

Done Deal Pro Home Page

Loading

Go Back   Done Deal Pro Forums > General > Articles, Books, Blogs, Magazines, DVDs & Podcasts
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-15-2012, 06:49 PM   #81
Jules
Member
 
Jules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,120
Default Re: The New Black List

The only factors 'seems' to be genre.

Also what was the reasoning for not letting a writer know who downloaded their script, in the way that inktip does, I understand and industry professional might be more willing to view a script if there anon is protected. Assumedly, that's the reason? Fair enough.

If a person opts to view the script online, instead of downloading, does that still count towards the download info on the script page?

And what are 'impressions?'
__________________
It's the eye of the Tiger, it's the thrill of the fight

Last edited by Jules : 10-15-2012 at 07:01 PM.
Jules is offline  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:11 PM   #82
FranklinLeonard
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 931
Default Re: The New Black List

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
The only factors 'seems' to be genre.

Also what was the reasoning for not letting a writer know who downloaded their script, in the way that inktip does, I understand and industry professional might be more willing to view a script if there anon is protected. Assumedly, that's the reason? Fair enough.

If a person opts to view the script online, instead of downloading, does that still count towards the download info on the script page?

And what are 'impressions?'
Your assumption is correct on the first point.

If a person reads a script online, that does, in fact constitute a download and will be indicated as such.

Impressions are views of the script page.

Genre and logline are the two we are currently working with, but we will be adding more in the very near future.
FranklinLeonard is offline  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:13 PM   #83
Jules
Member
 
Jules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,120
Default Re: The New Black List

If I view my own script does that count as a download?
__________________
It's the eye of the Tiger, it's the thrill of the fight
Jules is offline  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:18 PM   #84
FranklinLeonard
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 931
Default Re: The New Black List

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
If I view my own script does that count as a download?
I'll need to double check with my CTO, but probably. For the time being, you'll have to adjust the numbers based on that assumption.

(Can I get some credit - a little bit maybe - for honesty, even when it's embarrassing?)
FranklinLeonard is offline  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:26 PM   #85
Jules
Member
 
Jules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,120
Default Re: The New Black List

Yeah I guess.
__________________
It's the eye of the Tiger, it's the thrill of the fight
Jules is offline  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:28 PM   #86
JeffLowell
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,025
Default Re: The New Black List

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
Jeff, first, let me start by saying that I really admire your work, both as a screenwriter and as an educator and advocate for and of screenwriters here and elsewhere. I fully understand that there are legitimate questions and concerns about this venture, as I think there should be. It's why I will continue to be as transparent as possible about what we're doing, why we're doing it, how we're doing it, and why we're doing it in the way that we are. It's why I went to each of the Guilds in advance of launch to begin a dialogue and incorporate their concerns into our model and maintain and ongoing conversation with them. Moreover, I suspect we'll have some announcement in the near future that will assuage some of your concerns.

I would, honored, frankly, if you wanted to host a moderated conversation here where I could address your and anyone else's concerns. In the meantime, I will begin answering frequently asked questions on the Black List blog (and people can start asking them via the comments here: http://blog.blcklst.com/2012/10/ques...list-ask-away/ or here: http://gointothestory.blcklst.com/20...enwriters.html, but that is admittedly a bit ad hoc, and I'd like make myself available to the Done Deal Pro community specifically and who better to moderate than you, someone well respected and with a healthy skepticism of this endeavor.

As for your question, unlike agencies - and many of the different, more disreputable services that try to accomplish on a smaller scale what we will - we do not take a commission on any of the business generated by this platform. We take no finder's fee. And we are not asking for or demanding an option or producer's credit on material discovered via this platform.
Thanks for the kind words.

I'm not going to talk you out of your business plan, but I'll try to make a few points. If DDPro wants to formalize it, that's fine and I'm happy to help, but this seems like a good go-to thread.

The problem with reading fees isn't that agencies that charge them then take a percentage of any resulting sales. The problem is that agencies that charge them usually make all their money from reading fees, and none from selling scripts. All legit agencies, management companies, producers and studios bear their own cost of finding material, as you well know, since you're with one of the best production companies there is.

As I said, for signatory agencies, there's a rule: no paying for access. And yet that's what a lot of coverage services are promising these days - pay us to read your script, and if we like it, we'll make sure it gets read by X. Script Shark, Scriptshadow... it's a growing business. Of course it's not illegal in any way, because the people setting up these systems aren't WGA signatories.

My problem with it is just a general principal I have (and I didn't come up with it): money should flow to the writer.

Obviously it's not a hard and fast rule - I think there are a few worthwhile contests, and let's be honest - those contests are basically doing exactly what I'm complaining about, charging for a chance to get read by legit players (often with the added bonus of winning some cash).

My belief is that if someone writes a great script with a great concept, they'll get reads. They don't have to pay to get noticed. I often use your Black List as an example - there are a lot of new writers who appear on that list. They get in because they wrote something special, and Hollywood is thirsting for new material. Again, I'm telling you something you're already living - how many scripts do you read a week, looking for a writer or a project?

My guess is that you'll find what Amazon Studios found - writing commercial, well executed scripts is tough, and those that stand out find their way into the system through normal channels.

Maybe I'm wrong. And if you manage to start breaking projects left and right, I'll happily eat crow. I've done it before. I may even send a couple of old specs your way.

I'll end with one question: who'd you talk to in the WGAWest?
JeffLowell is offline  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:00 PM   #87
FranklinLeonard
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 931
Default Re: The New Black List

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffLowell View Post
Thanks for the kind words.

I'm not going to talk you out of your business plan, but I'll try to make a few points. If DDPro wants to formalize it, that's fine and I'm happy to help, but this seems like a good go-to thread.

The problem with reading fees isn't that agencies that charge them then take a percentage of any resulting sales. The problem is that agencies that charge them usually make all their money from reading fees, and none from selling scripts. All legit agencies, management companies, producers and studios bear their own cost of finding material, as you well know, since you're with one of the best production companies there is.

As I said, for signatory agencies, there's a rule: no paying for access. And yet that's what a lot of coverage services are promising these days - pay us to read your script, and if we like it, we'll make sure it gets read by X. Script Shark, Scriptshadow... it's a growing business. Of course it's not illegal in any way, because the people setting up these systems aren't WGA signatories.

My problem with it is just a general principal I have (and I didn't come up with it): money should flow to the writer.

Obviously it's not a hard and fast rule - I think there are a few worthwhile contests, and let's be honest - those contests are basically doing exactly what I'm complaining about, charging for a chance to get read by legit players (often with the added bonus of winning some cash).

My belief is that if someone writes a great script with a great concept, they'll get reads. They don't have to pay to get noticed. I often use your Black List as an example - there are a lot of new writers who appear on that list. They get in because they wrote something special, and Hollywood is thirsting for new material. Again, I'm telling you something you're already living - how many scripts do you read a week, looking for a writer or a project?

My guess is that you'll find what Amazon Studios found - writing commercial, well executed scripts is tough, and those that stand out find their way into the system through normal channels.

Maybe I'm wrong. And if you manage to start breaking projects left and right, I'll happily eat crow. I've done it before. I may even send a couple of old specs your way.

I'll end with one question: who'd you talk to in the WGAWest?
Jeff, Thank you for the thoughtful response.

First off, no longer with Overbrook Entertainment. Left a couple of weeks ago. There's unfortunate coverage of my exit online that I won't post here.

I agree that great writing can eventually find its way into Hollywood if only because this town and this industry is desperate for great work. As anyone who has worked in the business for any amount of time knows, great screenwriting is rare, which is part of why I'm constantly arguing that writers are grossly undervalued in the marketplace.

Here's the thing though: the process by which that material finds its way into Hollywood is terribly inefficient, which creates some real negative consequences for writers because of the lopsided power dynamic between writers outside the industry and the industry itself.

This initiative is designed, first and foremost, to address that inefficiency. In so doing, I hope to create a situation where when a good piece of material is identified, its writer has more options (for representation, for selling their script, etc) than they would otherwise.

I feel confident that it's possible, because we've already seen similar things happen with writers on the Black List, as you mentioned. Some were languishing in obscurity, and getting on the list spotlighted their good work, creating greater demand for them and their time (which hopefully, and there's evidence to suggest, granted them greater opportunity and higher pay.)

We're just trying to find good work so that we can tell the world about it and help it live its full potential, because we know how hard it is to find as moviemakers and we know how hard it is to find someone trusted (and fundamentally impartial) to celebrate it when you're the one writing that good work.

Amazon Studios faces different (and frankly more difficult) challenges than we do, because they're producers. They're looking to identify material that was overlooked and then lock it down for themselves, which requires a conscious decision from writers that they'd rather be with Amazon even if they could be elsewhere.

Writers sacrifice nothing - other than a minimum $75 - to submit their script to us, not the rights to choose their own representative, not the rights to their script, not the right to negotiate a fair market price for their work, not even their right to privacy re: the evaluations that they're paying for.

They do, if their script is good, gain the kind of opportunity for access that has never before existed. Not something that Script Shark or ScriptShadow or any similar service (all of which differ widely from ours in my opinion) can offer, and they offer it for more money (in some cases, a lot more.)

I am confident that this is a tide that can raise all boats, especially writers', and moreover, it was explicitly created to be exactly that. Quibble with our methodology as much as you like, I welcome the opportunity to explain why we've created what we have and why and hear suggestions of serious minded people who might be effected by what we're doing (it's why I'm here). Truth is, we will no doubt incorporate many of these suggestions to improve our product.

Our fundamental goal is to make the market for screenplays more efficient so that a script "finding its way into Hollywood" doesn't take the years that it did before and involve coercing your aunt's husband's brother who works at CAA into looking at your script in the hopes that he'll pass it to someone who might like it, so that it's not necessary to move to Hollywood and network like a banshee so that you can find someone who will read your script.

It's about making the work the focus and creating an infrastructure where the best of it can more quickly rise to the top.

If we're able to do that, and I think we are, $75 (or more) is, I believe, a small price to pay for access to it.

As for my conversations with the Guild, I'd rather not post them in a public forum. Is there I way we can take this conversation off-line.
FranklinLeonard is offline  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:12 PM   #88
lordmanji
Member
 
lordmanji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,123
Default Re: The New Black List

I want to reiterate I think this is a fantastic opportunity for writers, Franklin, and to me what you're doing is a game changer, net positives all around.

But I do have to say that listing a script on the site at $25 per month for half a year, a year, two or more, can become financially draining. And of course the cost is multiplied per month if more than one script is uploaded. Do you have the roughest of estimates how long it would take for a script to get noticed by industry pros with the site's algorithm (moving high enough in the ratings, number of reads)?
lordmanji is offline  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:23 PM   #89
FranklinLeonard
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 931
Default Re: The New Black List

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmanji View Post
I want to reiterate I think this is a fantastic opportunity for writers, Franklin, and to me what you're doing is a game changer, net positives all around.

But I do have to say that listing a script on the site at $25 per month for half a year, a year, two or more, can become financially draining. And of course the cost is multiplied per month if more than one script is uploaded. Do you have the roughest of estimates how long it would take for a script to get noticed by industry pros with the site's algorithm (moving high enough in the ratings, number of reads)?
I wish I could give you numbers. I can't, and I'm not going to make some up. It wouldn't be fair or honest.

What I can say with reasonable certainty is that every highly rated read from one of our readers will likely attract a fair amount of attention and traffic to the script that receives it.

Put it this way, when it happens, at least several hundred (depending on what the script is and how highly its rated) of our industry pros will be contacted via email to the effect of "there's an available, unrepresented piece of material that we believe is quite good." In an industry desperate for good material (and based on my personal knowledge of how that dynamic works), there's good reason to believe that traffic will move pretty quickly.

Targeted recommendations will take longer as our algorithm learns and grows and our database is populated with more information, but that too is faster than any current infrastructure that exists to transmit information through the grapevine that is this industry.
FranklinLeonard is offline  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:37 PM   #90
ReneC
Member
 
ReneC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 464
Default Re: The New Black List

Is the writer's contact information provided with the script when it is downloaded? I'm curious what happens if a producer reads a script but doesn't act on it right away, and six months later decides to contact the writer only to find the writer has stopped paying to have it hosted because there were no real bites, just lots of reads.
ReneC is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Done Deal Pro

eXTReMe Tracker