Managers and Development

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  • #91
    Re: Managers and Development

    Originally posted by jtwg50 View Post
    NoJustice: It's not just wanna-be's and beginners that are doing free work. Even some well established pros are being forced to jump through more hoops and do a lot more work on pitches and "free" rewrites characterized as "producer's passes" to get around the normal step structure and WGA rules. It's all just a testament to how incredibly difficult it is now for all concerned since the business (and discretionary money and development funding) is shrinking rather than growing.
    I don't really see extended pitches and free rewrites on paid assignments, as being the same as unpaid assignments. Not that any of it is desirable, but I can't imagine established pros writing up someone's script for free.

    Unpaid means write an entire script, or rewrite someone else's script in its entirety, for no money, unless it sells. There's nothing professional about it. That's pure exploitation. And any manager who participates in that is not managing the situation.

    They're cuckoo birds who have dropped an egg in someone else's nest, and they simply don't care, because for them it will either pay off or it won't, they're not the ones doing the work, and in orchestrating this they demonstrate that they have absolutely no regard for the well-being of the writer.

    And if they don't have any regard for the writer, they shouldn't be let loose to manage them.

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    • #92
      Re: Managers and Development

      Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
      It's not 360.

      To me, managers are supposed to have fewer clients than agents, and work with the writers in developing their careers. Careers, not a live or die spec.

      Giving notes every few months (and only sending out the script if it meets their standards) isn't managing, IMO. Managers are supposed to set up meetings with studios and producers and agents, get you in on assignments and pitches, etc.
      This is my seemingly naive concept of what a manager is. The sort of person I hope to sign me when I begin querying.

      This thread is revelatory and terrifying... and I have no clue as to the ID of the management firm with the suspect practices.
      @MacBullitt

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      • #93
        Re: Managers and Development

        Originally posted by SBScript View Post
        Not Zero Gravity?!
        Zero Gravity.

        "Artificial Intelligence will never match the efficiency of Natural Stupidity"

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        • #94
          Re: Managers and Development

          Again, I do not see the problem with this.

          They're writing scripts and not getting paid for them? I do that every day. They're getting feedback from a manager trying to develop the scripts into something they can sell? Egad! The horrors! The company is working with more than one unestablished writer? Where do we sign up for the angry mob taking them out and hanging them?

          What I seem to be missing here is exactly how these managers are exploiting anyone. Are they taking credit away from the writers and passing the work off as someone else's? Are they stealing ideas from one writer and passing them on to another?

          The responses here make it seem like this company is doing something akin to slavery, and I simply do not see it. Can someone explain this to me?

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          • #95
            Re: Managers and Development

            Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
            Again, I do not see the problem with this.

            They're writing scripts and not getting paid for them? I do that every day. They're getting feedback from a manager trying to develop the scripts into something they can sell? Egad! The horrors! The company is working with more than one unestablished writer? Where do we sign up for the angry mob taking them out and hanging them?

            What I seem to be missing here is exactly how these managers are exploiting anyone. Are they taking credit away from the writers and passing the work off as someone else's? Are they stealing ideas from one writer and passing them on to another?

            The responses here make it seem like this company is doing something akin to slavery, and I simply do not see it. Can someone explain this to me?
            I'm not a manager, so I wouldn't presume to tell a manager what to do.

            But, Unequal, you're talking on a micro level, what is being done with one writer of one agent at the firm. If the same is being done with a majority of the writers, which is how it was described, then, something is wrong. And, if nobody is really getting their stuff sent out, then the "manager" is acting like a production company, reading, reading, reading and looking for that ONE script to make some dough on.

            And, if a manager takes on a writer and then, for some time, only gets him to write treatments, specs, etc. and never takes any of them out, then, I'd say they made a bad judgment on that writer. If they can't get him up to speed to take anything out in that amount of time, that would call into question the manager's judgment--couldn't he judge whether the person and their material was ready or reasonably close to it??

            I doubt that describes any but a very small percentage of managers.

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            • #96
              Re: Managers and Development

              Originally posted by mikejc View Post
              I'm not a manager, so I wouldn't presume to tell a manager what to do.

              But, Unequal, you're talking on a micro level, what is being done with one writer of one agent at the firm. If the same is being done with a majority of the writers, which is how it was described, then, something is wrong. And, if nobody is really getting their stuff sent out, then the "manager" is acting like a production company, reading, reading, reading and looking for that ONE script to make some dough on.

              And, if a manager takes on a writer and then, for some time, only gets him to write treatments, specs, etc. and never takes any of them out, then, I'd say they made a bad judgment on that writer. If they can't get him up to speed to take anything out in that amount of time, that would call into question the manager's judgment--couldn't he judge whether the person and their material was ready or reasonably close to it??

              I doubt that describes any but a very small percentage of managers.
              So managers should only take on writers that are ready at that moment to be sold? Managers shouldn't work with writers to get their spec scripts together? If a manager is working with more than a handful of writers to try to get them ready for the professional level, they're an evil spec farmer?

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              • #97
                Re: Managers and Development

                Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                So managers should only take on writers that are ready at that moment to be sold? Managers shouldn't work with writers to get their spec scripts together? If a manager is working with more than a handful of writers to try to get them ready for the professional level, they're an evil spec farmer?
                Of course not. But as many posters in this thread have pointed out, you run the risk of working on spec with a manager who isn't 100% behind you in a situation like that. I was repped for several years by one of the companies discussed here, and I can tell you that after a year of pitching ideas, writing treatments, having those pitches and treatments shot down, rinsing and repeating over and over and over, that by the time I finally parted ways with that manager I was incredibly demoralized by the experience.

                It's not that all of those rejected ideas were pure gold; far from it. But I had become so focused on making my manager and his partners happy that I had lost track of what got me excited as a writer to begin with. And if that happens and you're not even getting paid for your efforts, then what's the point?

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                • #98
                  Re: Managers and Development

                  Originally posted by PerpetuallyBlocked View Post
                  Of course not. But as many posters in this thread have pointed out, you run the risk of working on spec with a manager who isn't 100% behind you in a situation like that. I was repped for several years by one of the companies discussed here, and I can tell you that after a year of pitching ideas, writing treatments, having those pitches and treatments shot down, rinsing and repeating over and over and over, that by the time I finally parted ways with that manager I was incredibly demoralized by the experience.

                  It's not that all of those rejected ideas were pure gold; far from it. But I had become so focused on making my manager and his partners happy that I had lost track of what got me excited as a writer to begin with. And if that happens and you're not even getting paid for your efforts, then what's the point?
                  What's the point? How about making a sale? What you love to write and what got you into writing isn't necessarily what sells. That's where your manager comes in. Your manager has connections, but they also know what those connections are looking for.

                  This is a business. Managers are selling a product. If your a brand new writer with little experiene or knowledge of the industry, it's a blessing to get someone who is willing to work with you through treatments and drafts until you have a product that executives and production companies are clamoring to get their hands on.

                  If that's not the way you work, then don't do it. Go off and write your heartfelt indie. Find a director and pull together funding. There is more than one way to break into this industry. I still don't see anything wrong with this option.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Managers and Development

                    Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                    So managers should only take on writers that are ready at that moment to be sold?
                    Yes?

                    Maybe I'm ignorant on how managers are operating with new writers now, but my understanding was always that they take on people where they'd be proud to show their work around, get them meetings, put them up for jobs, etc.

                    Why are managers taking on people where they're not willing to show any of their writing to anyone?

                    This paradigm of "manager as finishing school" is an odd one to me. Although, if that's the way it's working now, I can see why some take on so many clients - they're gambling that a percentage of clients they take on will eventually produce something worth sending out.

                    It feels like getting engaged to twenty women while you figure out who actually would make the best wife. That's a good deal for the man... not so much for the woman.

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                    • Re: Managers and Development

                      Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                      It feels like getting engaged to twenty women while you figure out who actually would make the best wife. That's a good deal for the man... not so much for the woman.
                      Sounds like there's a new reality show right around the corner.

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                      • Re: Managers and Development

                        John August and Craig Mazin discuss this topic on today's podcast.

                        Craig seems to say that no reputable management company is operating this way. That contradicts several posts in this thread. Craig also seems to say there are only a few reputable management companies worth signing with.

                        If no one can name the spec farms, can someone at least name the good ones?

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                        • Re: Managers and Development

                          Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                          What's the point? How about making a sale? What you love to write and what got you into writing isn't necessarily what sells. That's where your manager comes in. Your manager has connections, but they also know what those connections are looking for.

                          This is a business. Managers are selling a product. If your a brand new writer with little experiene or knowledge of the industry, it's a blessing to get someone who is willing to work with you through treatments and drafts until you have a product that executives and production companies are clamoring to get their hands on.

                          If that's not the way you work, then don't do it. Go off and write your heartfelt indie. Find a director and pull together funding. There is more than one way to break into this industry. I still don't see anything wrong with this option.
                          No argument with any of this. Getting my first manager was a huge step for me as a writer, and it was a great learning experience until things went south.

                          I guess my point is that many writers needlessly burn out on the spec development treadmill instead of facing the fact that their tastes just don't match those of their manager and they're better off bailing; to continue Jeff Lowell's comparison, they're the women who got engaged to the guy who probably should never have proposed in the first place.

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                          • Re: Managers and Development

                            Originally posted by ChadStrohl View Post
                            Sounds like there's a new reality show right around the corner.
                            Considering how many Bachelorskankettes Ben "I Miss My Dog" Flajnik played "Hide the salami" with before getting nookie-stunned by no one has the "Hills Have Eyes" like Courtney -- I'd say that ground has pretty well been trammeled.

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                            • Re: Managers and Development

                              Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                              What's the point? How about making a sale? What you love to write and what got you into writing isn't necessarily what sells. That's where your manager comes in. Your manager has connections, but they also know what those connections are looking for.

                              This is a business. Managers are selling a product. If your a brand new writer with little experiene or knowledge of the industry, it's a blessing to get someone who is willing to work with you through treatments and drafts until you have a product that executives and production companies are clamoring to get their hands on.

                              If that's not the way you work, then don't do it. Go off and write your heartfelt indie. Find a director and pull together funding. There is more than one way to break into this industry. I still don't see anything wrong with this option.
                              Managers have the right to do whatever they think is best for them, of course. But, under the circumstances he described, PB could be forgiven for not feeling like his management situation was a "blessing." And I don't know why it should be assumed that his rejected ideas and treatments were for "heartfelt indies" with no commercial potential. I suppose different managers have different approaches, and perhaps more and more of them are adopting a "spec farm" model. But if a manager signs a writer based on one or more of his scripts, I think the writer ought to be able to take that as an indication the manager believes that (1) the writer is at a high enough level to enter the market, and (2) the writer's script(s) that were the basis of the signing, after some degree of revision and polishing, will be ready to go out. That doesn't mean the manager has to love every idea the writer has, going forward. But I think a good manager will try to be as receptive as possible, and, as Jeff suggested, have some confidence in, and show some enthusiasm for, his clients and their work.

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                              • Re: Managers and Development

                                Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                                Maybe I'm ignorant on how managers are operating with new writers now, but my understanding was always that they take on people where they'd be proud to show their work around, get them meetings, put them up for jobs, etc.
                                I've always had the impression that managers are supposed to help writers get their work ready for the marketplace, rather than just tack on a cover sheet. But I'm probably the ignorant one here.

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