AVATAR--I have the sneaking suspicion....

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  • Re: AVATAR--I have the sneaking suspicion....

    Originally posted by WritersBlock2010 View Post
    Basically, do what Clint Eastwood does. He makes inspiring, thought-provoking entertainment that is intended for a mass audience... But he forces that same audience to think and engage their minds whether they want to or not. And the irony is, a lot of the movie-going public *does* like to think a little while they escape, but they are often not given the chance, IMO.
    Which is why I want those roving bands of death squads out there. I think after *decades* of films that were both entertaining and thought-provoking (about something, and made you think after leaving the cinema) we had this recent rip in cinema where one side became *all* about art and the other side became *all* about commerce (what you call the corporate films) and I believe the audience is getting the shaft. (Yes, I know there are films with a foot in each camp, and that is what I am trying to encourage with my roving death squads.)

    I have to decide - do I want to see a good movie tonight or an entertaining movie? And I do not want to make that decision! I want to eat food that tastes good and is good for me. (And yes, there are many indie films that I am entertained by, but I think the vast American viewing audience is not... and they are missing the healthy part of their meals.)

    My roving band of death squads would encourage intelligent writers to write entertaining films, so that the people who loved TRANSFORMERS would get a film that they think is great... and also think about after leaving the cinema (and by think I don't mean "I'd sure like to do that Megan Fox" but maybe think about how we are depandant on machines or whatever the theme they come up with is... and have the scenes be better written and not stupid and have those lines of dialogue that you quote later instead of instantly forget). I want to stop this rip in cinema before it can not be repaired.

    In those old days, we had cinema that was both intelligent and entertaining... and we had no indie cinema to take away all of the smart people, who should be fighting the stupid people in suits (or not in suits when it comes to corporate nudist cinema) and make mainstream films great again. (Yes, I have in the past posted stupid mainstream films from the past - but I think that most of the current mainstream films are much dumber than the dumb movies I have to search for in the past.)

    This article is all about 1939's ten Best Picture Noms... and it attempts to make excuses for today's 10 noms by saying HURT LOCKER is about real issues, as was MR. SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON. Um, big difference is that MR. SMITH was a popular mainstream film and HURT LOCKER is not...
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100202/.../us_oscars1939

    And also tries to pass off GONE WITH THE WIND as an indie film... um, okay. But it's still a big mainstream popular blockbuster designed to sell a pile of tickets.

    The Goldman article on 1939 digs past those 10 films and comes up with something like 50 plus films that are classics from that year. And if you move on to 1940? Not like they're all dogs...

    •Rebecca (1940) - Selznick International Pictures
    •All This, and Heaven Too (1940) - Warner Bros.
    •Foreign Correspondent (1940) - Walter Wanger
    •Kitty Foyle: The Natural History of a Woman (1940) - RKO Radio
    •Our Town (1940) - Sol Lesser
    •The Grapes of Wrath (1940) - 20th Century Fox
    •The Great Dictator (1940) - Charles Chaplin Productions
    •The Letter (1940) - Warner Bros.
    •The Long Voyage Home (1940) - Argosy; Walter Wanger
    •The Philadelphia Story (1940) - Joseph L. Mankiewicz; M-G-M

    Okay - all of those were mainstream movies - pop entertainment - and the winner was a thriller - a genre film - and a film that holds up well today. (The soapy rom-drams like THE LETTER don't hold up as well, but that was a popular genre in its day.) Funny that Hitchcock had two films up for Best Picture that year. GRAPES OF WRATH is strangely like AVATAR - kind of leftie movies about people fight oppression, they're both emotional movies. ("Everywhere a Navi fights for their land, I'll be there.")

    The problem is we have all the brains on one side of the room and all of the popular kids on the other side, and making brain stuff popular just ain't gonna happen unless the two sides come together. And my roving death squads hope to do that.

    So help me help everyone else! Join a roving death squad and search for single grip trucks on the streets of Los Angeles!

    - Bill
    Free Script Tips:
    http://www.scriptsecrets.net

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    • Re: AVATAR--I have the sneaking suspicion....

      thank you bill.

      it's interesting and depressing at times, watching films out here in the non-hw hinterland --

      it seems like "more", "faster" and "better", have become buzz words for most films out of hw. i don't know, maybe it's budget considerations, or maybe it's the rise of the internet with the "immediacy" of information paired alongside the de-personalization of humanity. sadly though, the actual reason audiences go to films seems to have been lost in the general hw memo system. it's really no wonder films like avatar step up into the breach and knock everyone's expectations on their collective ass.

      actually, your roving squads are sounding pretty good after watching 2012.
      life happens
      despite a few cracked pots-
      and random sunlight

      Comment


      • Re: AVATAR--I have the sneaking suspicion....

        Originally posted by Gwai Lo View Post
        WritersBlock --

        I hear what you're saying, and I don't want to make it sound like a balance can't be struck. Setting out to be a Spielberg, Lucas or a Cameron, or a David Lean or a John Ford is a smart and noble thing to do. And there is a science to how these guys do what they do, a polish that ensures that stuff that won't be to the taste of the masses gets buffed right out. Case in point, read the scriptment for AVATAR, which addresses a great deal of the issues that a lot of the critics have with the movie. It seems like Cameron trimmed off a good deal of the hard sci-fi fat to get to the juicy love story and epic battle bits. Wisely, in retrospect. Bottom line is that to reach the Avatar audience, the Star Wars audience, the Gone With the Wind audience... You need to appeal to the widest demographic possible, and then give them what they're expecting, so they have a few reasons to go tell all their friends about it. Not everyone can do this. In fact, there's only a handful of people working in film that can do this on the strength of their name alone.

        I completely understand the balance you're talking about. And I think I would be up to the task of writing something in this realm if the right idea/project came along. I am not opposed to populist entertainment like AVATAR, as mentioned many times in this thread I liked it and think Cameron knew exactly what he was doing with the broad strokes he laid down.

        But my point is this. There are all sorts of movies. And there are all sorts of audiences. Just because some of them aren't blockbuster sized, doesn't mean they're not there. And you can reach the widest possible audience for a certain genre or type of film without reaching the widest possible audience period. MOON did the former, AVATAR did the latter. Thank God MOON still gets to exist, you know what I'm saying?

        It just seems like the studios are increasingly mistaking widest possible audience for "idiots that need to be separated from their money". The amount of remakes, sequels, prequels, and adaptations of everything from Candyland to Viewmaster is unprecedented right now. Struggling spec writers can't just go ahead and write a Superman script or a Citizen Kane remake, so we focus on reaching that widest possible audience. And in doing so we make concessions, or write something safe and familiar like another goddamn vampires vs. werewolves picture. Let's face it, AVATAR as a spec script would be a hard sell. No one wants to make a 200 million dollar space cats epic that's not based on anything (at least not officially) unless James Cameron wrote it.

        But it's not all doom and gloom, because when you look at the landscape of film, there are dozens of examples of filmmaking every year that any writer can aspire to, and not all of them bust blocks or make someone the King of the World. And the vast majority of the time, the people that end up writing your box office winners every year are not the struggling spec writers but the established writers who broke in with small specs and landed bigger assignments once they were on the up and up.

        Kurt Vonnegut said "write to please one person", and I agree with that. I want to know that the story I happen to be telling at any given time is as sharp as I can get it, and if it means working outside the system or making less money I am willing to face that. Even now, when I am not exactly making a living at this.

        When a film like Moon comes out I begin to believe in films again.
        Forthcoming: The Annual, "I JUST GOT DUMPED" Valentine's Short Screenplay Writing Competition. Keep an eye on Writing Exercises.

        Comment


        • Re: AVATAR--I have the sneaking suspicion....

          So anyway, projecting forward I think Avatar is going to end up between a floor of $2.7 billion (which I think is a lock at this stage) and a ceiling of around 3-3.1 billion as it's final gross, I think the Oscars will play some part in that, but should be quite an impressive figure when it rolls to a close.

          Comment


          • Re: AVATAR--I have the sneaking suspicion....

            Avatar chuggling along, just passed 2.21 billion, and over 1.6 bill overseas, should beat Titanic's record of 1.8 billion soon just on overseas sales.

            Comment


            • Re: AVATAR--I have the sneaking suspicion....

              The #1 movie on Monday 2/8, Tuesday 2/9, Wednesday 2/10, and Thursday 2/11?

              AVATAR. Totally beating DEAR JOHN and all of the other movies.

              It can not be stopped!

              - Bill
              Free Script Tips:
              http://www.scriptsecrets.net

              Comment


              • Re: AVATAR--I have the sneaking suspicion....

                While searching for the magazine with the 10 Best Unproduced Scripts List... I found a 10 Best Unproduced Scripts list from 2000 that listed AVATAR! It was one of the top scripts on that decade old version of the Black List! That should give some perspective on whether the film is all FX, since it made that list when it was only a screenplay. (That 2000 list was discussed here in 2007)

                PS: The AVATAR scriptment also made Empire Magazine Ten Best Unproduced Script list.

                - Bill
                Last edited by wcmartell; 02-14-2010, 12:31 AM.
                Free Script Tips:
                http://www.scriptsecrets.net

                Comment


                • Re: AVATAR--I have the sneaking suspicion....

                  Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
                  PS: The AVATAR scriptment also made Empire Magazine Ten Best Unproduced Script list.
                  The scriptment was amazing. Reading it and visualizing what could have been always gets me pissed.

                  Comment


                  • Re: AVATAR--I have the sneaking suspicion....

                    You've seen it in 3D, what about 4D:

                    Meanwhile Landau acknowledged that “Avatar” has been released in Korea in 4D – an experimental process that is similar to some theme park rides, in which the theater seats shake, and physical sensations like wind and water simulate the experience on screen.

                    “Three months ago Fox Korea came to us and asked us to support this experiment,” he said. “The response came back, and it was better than they thought (it would be).”

                    Stay tuned for more dimensional movie experiences.
                    http://www.thewrap.com/?q=ind-column...ar-works-14218

                    And if anyone is still counting it's half way to $2.4 billion now:

                    Avatar:
                    Oveseas: 1.69 billion
                    Domestic: 659 million
                    Total: 2.35 billion

                    Comment


                    • Re: AVATAR--I have the sneaking suspicion....

                      Originally posted by wcmartell View Post
                      Which is why I want those roving bands of death squads out there. I think after *decades* of films that were both entertaining and thought-provoking (about something, and made you think after leaving the cinema) we had this recent rip in cinema where one side became *all* about art and the other side became *all* about commerce (what you call the corporate films) and I believe the audience is getting the shaft. (Yes, I know there are films with a foot in each camp, and that is what I am trying to encourage with my roving death squads.)

                      I have to decide - do I want to see a good movie tonight or an entertaining movie? And I do not want to make that decision! I want to eat food that tastes good and is good for me.
                      In other words, why can't Terminator 4 be as good as Terminator 1 and 2? Why can't The Matrix 2 and 3 be as good as the original? Why can't Pirates 2 and 3 be as good as the original? Why can't Dreamworks animated films be as good as Pixar's? Why can't Spiderman 3 be as good as 1 and 2?

                      I don't think it has as much to do with the lack of talent as it does the lack of giving a s*** about product quality.

                      Hollywood doesn't want to make good movies. They want to make money.

                      What the suits fail to realize is that good movies typically make MORE MONEY than the bad ones (unless we're talking about bad sequels to good originals).

                      Comment

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