Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

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  • #31
    Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

    Originally posted by karsten View Post
    I know. Everybody is everybody's mother/daughter/son/brother/fifth cousin. More than once in the film, I felt that it was just one small step away from parody. Ghosts of Mel Brooks.

    And when I first saw Supreme Leader CGI, I thought that one of those gray giants from Prometheus had snuck into the film.
    Star Wars has always been the Skywalker Family Soap Opera at heart. Of course everyone is related.

    I though Snoke looked like a giant version of Voldemort in his pre-resurrection mutant baby phase.

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    • #32
      Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

      Kylo Ren is one of the best villains i've ever seen on film. He is angst ridden, conflicted, angry and actually dark. He reminds me of all these right wing angry young men who goes on killing sprees we see in the news. He is ultimately a coward, wearing a mask and looking for answers for his frustrations in totalitarian ideologies. In this he is much more formidable and unpredictable than Vader, who was just some bully. Vader is just a caricature, bloated by his arrogance and without weaknesses. He is just like any other villain in most superhero movies, completely without depth.

      This is also one of the reasons why I think The force awakens is a bit too dark. But I like that they give us a villain that is not to be admired or respected.

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      • #33
        Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

        Originally posted by Bananos View Post
        Kylo Ren is one of the best villains i've ever seen on film. He is angst ridden, conflicted, angry and actually dark. He reminds me of all these right wing angry young men who goes on killing sprees we see in the news. He is ultimately a coward, wearing a mask and looking for answers for his frustrations in totalitarian ideologies. In this he is much more formidable and unpredictable than Vader, who was just some bully. Vader is just a caricature, bloated by his arrogance and without weaknesses. He is just like any other villain in most superhero movies, completely without depth.

        This is also one of the reasons why I think The force awakens is a bit too dark. But I like that they give us a villain that is not to be admired or respected.
        really? he came off as just a whiny-ass bitch brat to me. it was pretty funny the way he wrecked **** with his lightsaber but not especially menacing
        Last edited by JoeBanks; 12-20-2015, 02:43 PM.

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        • #34
          Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

          Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
          really? he came of as just a whiny-ass bitch brat to me. it was pretty funny the way he wrecked **** with his lightsaber but not especially menacing
          Absolutely agree. This is what I'm getting at when I say that the film skirts self-parody. You could transplant weepy, skinny, tantrum-throwing Kylo into into Spaceballs 2, almost as is, and have him be a send-up of a villain, with his petulance. He's more Rick Moranis than Sith.

          Some anonymous storm trooper with a lightsabre-blocker is about as effective against saber-wielding Finn as Kylo is.

          Vader, by contrast, (at least prior to his diminution in the prequels), had gravitas. He inspired dread and awe. He was a legitimately formidable presence. Kylo seems like a kid playing dress-up. Sure that was partly the idea behind the character, but it just makes for a pathetic villain.

          In fact, everything about the "villainous" forces in this film is underpowered and unthreatening, due to their comprehensive lack of basic competence (apart from their "bigger 'splosions!" gun). And when the villains whom the heroes defeat are underpowered -- as these are -- then the "heroic" victory of the "good guys" is proportionately diminished

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          • #35
            Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

            It'a always easy to be an armchair quarterback but... I have to agree with others that this was not a great movie. As others have pointed out it was basically a remake/update of "A New Hope", except with a much weaker/more watered down villain. I get the sense JJ Abrams thought, Let's have a black stormtrooper and a girl protag. to mix it up/show everyone that we're taking risks but otherwise let's redo "A New Hope". I'm not even sure if it was better than any of the ones in the second trilogoy. It was definitely less original. Very disappointed...

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            • #36
              Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

              That's exactly what he was supposed to come off as though, JoeBanks... he's still a young apprentice. Vader was also moody and whiny in 3... then you don't see him again until 4, which was basically the same time gap that this was from Jedi.

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              • #37
                Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                Originally posted by Spanky View Post
                That's exactly what he was supposed to come off as though, JoeBanks... he's still a young apprentice. Vader was also moody and whiny in 3... then you don't see him again until 4, which was basically the same time gap that this was from Jedi.
                if the answer is "he acts the same way Anakin acted in the prequels" they should probably have rethought their characterization

                i would be okay with him being young, impetuous, struggling with a choice between the dark and light sides of the force. but we never see or have that turn explained in a credible way. all of that has already apparently happened by the time events are happening after the crawl. all we see here is him doing some pretty bad things but i have literally no idea why he thinks, for example, Darth Vader is his role model and he should want to "finish what you started."

                and if Luke, Leia, and Han knew that the grandson of Darth Vader could end up like this if he turned to the dark side (which we know is a risk because . . . Luke and Anakin) DON"T LET HIM TRAIN TO BE A ****ING JEDI! and that's not even addressing whatever the hell a Supreme Leader Snoke is (i don't even care)

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                • #38
                  Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                  But see, that's not just a Kasden or Abrams issue, it's a Hollywood issue, period. Every single movie made these days gets rushed along way too much because they care more about action than story. They would much rather add another fight scene then waste time getting in depth about the story. I think it's a joke...and I brought up Creed as perfect example of the same thing happening. That movie, like this movie, had the potential for true greatness, but we're in such a hurry to end movies filled with nothing but action in this era.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                    What made the originals so good was that Luke and Leia were these ill-equipped teenagers going up against an evil, extremely well-trained Sith light-swordmaster - Vader. There's something highly daunting / impossible about this task.

                    In VII we have the juvenille Rey battling an equally juvenile Ren. It's just not a very formidable opponent for Rey -- obvious from his lack of lightsaber skills. In fact, it almost seems like Rey is STRONGER than Ren. If our hero so easily defeats the bad guy, it just sucks the life out of the conflict.
                    I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                      I agree 100%. I absolutely loved Ren's character because he was noticeably still a juvenile with no maturity... but it just didn't make any sense at all to have this girl beat him under those circumstances. I truly believe if the movie panned out the way I described earlier in this thread, it would've been fantastic.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                        I've been avoiding this thread until after I saw the movie and had some time to think about it and now that I have - I'm honestly surprised that so many of you don't like it. I loved it! It's one of those rare movies that got me to shut off the critical part of my brain while I was watching and just go on an adventure. Daisy Ridley did some wonderful things with Rey - I think the performance comes off with a lot more wonder and vulnerability than the page would've given her alone. She and Finn have great chemistry, too - it's fun to watch them together. I don't know, I just really enjoyed the Rey character. And BB8 was just freaking adorable.

                        I do agree that the plot is very similar to A New Hope, but I think that trading in on that nostalgia is what buys them the ability to do some cool things with the upcoming sequels. And they spun things or called them out well enough for me to go along with it.

                        Honestly, I just had such a great time. There's something to be said for a spirit of adventure in a film.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                          i liked it. didn't love it. better than the prequels but not in the same league as the OT, story-wise.

                          Rey's character is the best part of the movie but trying to shoehorn Finn in as a co-protagonist really does her a disservice. it should have been her story in the same way Star Wars was Luke's story from start to finish.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                            Finn was the heart of the movie and the most compelling character. John Boyega knocked the role out of the park. I'm hoping the next movie is better story wise.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                              Originally posted by Bananos View Post
                              Vader is just a caricature, bloated by his arrogance and without weaknesses. He is just like any other villain in most superhero movies, completely without depth.
                              You do realize that he's the greatest sci-fi (maybe any genre) movie villain of all time, right? Remember, one-dimensional characters like Vader exist in real life -- Hitler, Saddam, Bush etc.

                              But given you can't rehash Vader, I thought the decision to go with Ren as a slightly less annoying, more complex Haden was a good move. I just wish he'd explain his motivations more. I mean, in III we had Anakin basically going from good to evil in 9 minutes of screen time to save Padme. WTF? We're owed more explanation.
                              I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                                That's not necessarily true, he showed a lot of signs that he was going to turn, even back in 2 when he slaughtered the sand people... and then he killed Dooku when he had him dead to rights and unarmed. I thought Vader's evolution to the dark side was fine, I just had a problem with how bad Christensen was playing the part.

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