Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

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  • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

    This thread has inspired me to start writing a romantic comedy called "Strikingly Pretty" -- about a really hot female sniper who is part of an elite strike force who falls in love with an English man of letters. Yes? No?

    Edit: sorry, make that really hot but also very intelligent and complicated and layered...

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    • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

      Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
      I don't speak with authority, I just express my (somewhat informed) opinion, and try to do it in a more or less articulate way (as much as I know and as much as I can in a foreign language).

      What I don't do (or try not to do) is question you, or anybody else, personally, only your arguments; it's unnecessary, and it can sometimes be quite unpleasant.

      "The best writers." There are lots of "best writers," some of them write very tightly and to the point, and some welcome all sorts of "whims," as I've called them.

      Just as I do with movies, I try to read novelists from different periods, countries and genres; I think this has afforded me some perspective on what can be done, successfully, in writing. It also includes reading interviews with the writers in question, reviews and critiques (just like anybody else who likes cinema or literature does). This doesn't mean I'm right, but at least I think I'm not wrong.

      I'll assume you're American, since most people here are. I'm European. As you probably know, there are fundamental differences in the way the arts are thought of and taught in either side of the Atlantic; what your Literature and Creative Writing teachers have taught you can be quite different from what Literature and Creative Writing teachers teach here (although in recent years American writing manuals have become very popular); I've even had teachers contradict each other.
      I don't think you can find any writing teacher or either side of the Atlantic who would consider "strikingly beautiful" (or "strikingly handsome" for that matter), as the sole description of a major character, to be acceptable, or anywhere in the neighborhood of good writing.

      It's not a whim or flourish it's a common mistake made by beginners.

      Good teachers point it out to writers, as Emily described how she does when she gives notes. Why anyone would argue so stridently to justify lazy writing amazes me.
      Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

      Comment


      • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

        I believe that when a reader notices "strikingly pretty" in a description and makes that an issue, it speaks more about the reader than the writer. To infer some kind of sexist belief on the part of the writer is either a) unfair to the writer or b) drawing attention away from what the reader is supposed to do which is to give notes on the whole story.

        If "strikingly pretty" description affects the story in a tangible way, then maybe that's an issue that the reader should bring up with the writer. But if it doesn't, I think the reader should focus on giving notes on more important elements of theme, character, and plot.

        My guess is that if a writer uses "strikingly pretty" to describe a character, that's a symptom of lazy or cliched writing. Then you're likely to find other instances where the writer made lazy or cliched story choices. And if that's the case, the reader should point out how the story choices are familiar where there are no surprises to the audience. But even in this scenario, I don't see how "striking pretty" becomes a point of contention as it has on this thread.

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        • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

          Originally posted by Hamboogul View Post
          I believe that when a reader notices "strikingly pretty" in a description and makes that an issue, it speaks more about the reader than the writer. To infer some kind of sexist belief on the part of the writer is either a) unfair to the writer or b) drawing attention away from what the reader is supposed to do which is to give notes on the whole story.

          If "strikingly pretty" description affects the story in a tangible way, then maybe that's an issue that the reader should bring up with the writer. But if it doesn't, I think the reader should focus on giving notes on more important elements of theme, character, and plot.

          My guess is that if a writer uses "strikingly pretty" to describe a character, that's a symptom of lazy or cliched writing. Then you're likely to find other instances where the writer made lazy or cliched story choices. And if that's the case, the reader should point out how the story choices are familiar where there are no surprises to the audience. But even in this scenario, I don't see how "striking pretty" becomes a point of contention as it has on this thread.
          Imagine if you read a screenplay full of Asian characters, and every single time one of them was introduced, the only description given was "smells like fish." Maybe there's one character who "doesn't smell like fish." And it is not a story about fish at all. But all the white characters got these really great, interesting descriptions that had nothing to do with the way they smelled unless it was plot relevant.

          What if this happened constantly, like in script after script after script. You read ten scripts today, and in five of them, the Asian characters are ALL described as "smelling like fish".

          You're telling me this wouldn't become a real annoyance to you? You wouldn't want to say something to people to convince them to make more of an effort with Asian characters?
          Chicks Who Script podcast

          Comment


          • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

            Originally posted by sc111 View Post
            I don't think you can find any writing teacher or either side of the Atlantic who would consider "strikingly beautiful" (or "strikingly handsome" for that matter), as the sole description of a major character, to be acceptable, or anywhere in the neighborhood of good writing.

            It's not a whim or flourish it's a common mistake made by beginners.

            Good teachers point it out to writers, as Emily described how she does when she gives notes. Why anyone would argue so stridently to justify lazy writing amazes me.
            What if she's "strikingly beautiful", full stop, on page 1. And then on page 7, an ex-boyfriend throws acid in her face and the rest of the story entails her struggle to come to terms with the fact that her beauty is gone forever. That while people had always reacted overtly and otherwise to her appearance - her beauty - they now still react overtly and otherwise to her appearance - her badly-scarred face.

            Or what if it's the opening scene of the Laila Ali Story.
            Page 1, line 1: INT. AN UPSCALE BAR - NIGHT

            Page 1, line 2: "LAILA, 22, strikingly pretty, standing at the bar."

            Page 1, line 3: "She throws a right hook, floors a guy standing next to her."

            And then:

            LAILA
            Who's "the bitch" now?

            But if a reader barfs at reading line 2, that reader won't get to line 3 or the rest.

            Of course, if some readers in the industry actually barf at that sort of line 2, then it's good for me to know that. I might think it's ridiculous, but if it's a reality - even if it's a small, low-probability, yet not-insignificant reality - then I need to keep that in mind.

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            • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

              I think we've all extensively gone over the territory and agreed that actions fill out the character, even if the initial description is thin.

              And I'll bet you a quarter that nobody who writes about Laila Ali will stop at strikingly pretty to describe her.

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              • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

                I don't see how "strikingly pretty" and "smells like fish" are the same thing. That being said, I wouldn't mind reading a script where a woman's introduced as "smells like fish" and an Asian fisherman is described as "strikingly pretty."

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                • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

                  Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                  What if she's "strikingly beautiful", full stop, on page 1. And then on page 7, an ex-boyfriend throws acid in her face and the rest of the story entails her struggle to come to terms with the fact that her beauty is gone forever. That while people had always reacted overtly and otherwise to her appearance - her beauty - they now still react overtly and otherwise to her appearance - her badly-scarred face.

                  Or what if it's the opening scene of the Laila Ali Story.
                  Page 1, line 1: INT. AN UPSCALE BAR - NIGHT

                  Page 1, line 2: "LAILA, 22, strikingly pretty, standing at the bar."

                  Page 1, line 3: "She throws a right hook, floors a guy standing next to her."

                  And then:

                  LAILA
                  Who's "the bitch" now?
                  But if a reader barfs at reading line 2, that reader won't get to line 3 or the rest.

                  Of course, if some readers in the industry actually barf at that sort of line 2, then it's good for me to know that. I might think it's ridiculous, but if it's a reality - even if it's a small, low-probability, yet not-insignificant reality - then I need to keep that in mind.
                  OTOH, if I wrote it this way -
                  Page 1, line 1: INT. AN UPSCALE BAR - NIGHT

                  Page 1, line 2: "At the bar, a HANDSOME MAN, 22. A gorgeous smile on his face."

                  Page 1, line 3: "Then BAM - a fist hits that face, the Man goes down."

                  Page 1, line 4: "Standing over him, LAILA, 22, strikingly pretty."

                  And then:

                  LAILA
                  Who's "the bitch" now?
                  Maybe that second version is simply a better presentation of that scene. It certainly pre-sets up the "strikingly pretty" descriptor. But IMO, whether LAILA is intro'd before or after she punches the guy in the face, that should not determine that descriptor's barf-inducing-ness.

                  Apart from that, the entire concept of being offended by anything I read in a script. Or see in a film or on TV. Never happens. I might think "bad" or "tasteless" or "unfunny" or "bigoted" or "[something else bad]". But something at which I'd "take offense"? Nope.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

                    Originally posted by emily blake View Post
                    Imagine if you read a screenplay full of Asian characters, and every single time one of them was introduced, the only description given was "smells like fish." Maybe there's one character who "doesn't smell like fish." And it is not a story about fish at all. But all the white characters got these really great, interesting descriptions that had nothing to do with the way they smelled unless it was plot relevant.

                    What if this happened constantly, like in script after script after script. You read ten scripts today, and in five of them, the Asian characters are ALL described as "smelling like fish".

                    You're telling me this wouldn't become a real annoyance to you? You wouldn't want to say something to people to convince them to make more of an effort with Asian characters?
                    Exactly. It's not just one example. It's that women are about 10 times more likely to be described based on their looks -- and ONLY their looks -- including when their looks have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PLOT.

                    In the original example I mentioned, I knew the true story the script was based on, and that this character was defined by her heroic actions, and not by her looks. So it felt like an insult to this brave historical figure.

                    I mean if you read "Mother Teresa -- barely legal and smokin' hot" -- wouldn't you be offended?
                    "People who work in Hollywood are the ones who didn't quit." -- Lawrence Kasdan

                    Please visit my website and blog: www.lauridonahue.com.

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                    • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

                      Well, I feel like I did the best I could here. If you don't want to even ponder looking at your script to see if you can write better female descriptions, I certainly can't force you.
                      Chicks Who Script podcast

                      Comment


                      • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

                        Originally posted by LauriD View Post
                        "Mother Teresa -- barely legal and smokin' hot"
                        HANDSOME GUY lights a cigarette.

                        GUY
                        So that's the black hole of Calcutta...
                        My stuff

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                        • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

                          I opened Breakdowns just now and this is the first thing that came up. So let's say this is a completely random sample. For arguments sake, I'm going to say that the descriptions are reasonably well written. Now, why it does it need to be defined that Emily really has to be gorgeous? I mean GORGEOUS. Not just reasonably attractive but out of his league. Not just warm and smart. You could just as easily replace beautiful with charming. Or charismatic. (For the record, I don't find 'attractive' always needs to define looks.) (Also, it would appear that the men are active and the one woman is reactive, but...)

                          The thing is, you can't ACT gorgeous. Or pretty. It is INACTIVE.

                          So if we agree that actions define character, you're going to want to have descriptions that are ACTIVE and ACTABLE.

                          [ WILL ]
                          LEAD MALE, 60's-70's, Caucasian: A retired JPL scientist,a lab-geek that approaches love and romance the ''scientific way.'' He and his colleague have invented a computer program that helps young men in the romance department...with dubious results. [ GEORGE ]
                          LEAD MALE, 60's-70's, Caucasian: George is a retired JPL scientist that is passionate, humorous and talkative. He and his colleague have invented a system that helps young men in the romance department...with dubious results.

                          [ BEN ]
                          SUPPORTING MALE, 25-30, Caucasian: Ben is the smart, nerdy type that has always been afraid to talk to women. He decides to try a new computer program that will help him be more suave and confident as he takes the gorgeous Emily out on a date.

                          [ EMILY ]
                          SUPPORTING FEMALE, 23-30, all ethnicity's considered: Emily is a smart, warm beautiful young woman. She captures the heart of Ben, the loveable geek, and starts to fall for him too.
                          Last edited by carcar; 06-18-2014, 09:46 AM. Reason: PS. This is a fairly typical breakdown.

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                          • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

                            Originally posted by carcar View Post
                            I think we've all extensively gone over the territory and agreed that actions fill out the character, even if the initial description is thin.

                            And I'll bet you a quarter that nobody who writes about Laila Ali will stop at strikingly pretty to describe her.
                            Yeh.** And no one would even ever write that (fictional) scene that I wrote.

                            But if that were the opening scene, why say more? That's all that's needed to set up the punch.

                            _______

                            ** ADD-ON: Actually, why should a script about Laila Ali say anything more than "strikingly pretty" (or something along those lines) in her intro - "to describe her"? I figure, everything else we'll need to know about her we will learn by seeing what she does, how she does it, and with whom she does it, and what she says, and what others may say about her. Though, if the first time we see her, she's in her boxing shorts and sleeveless shirt, there'd probably also be a description of her body.
                            Last edited by Manchester; 06-18-2014, 09:46 AM. Reason: add-on

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                            • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

                              Originally posted by emily blake View Post
                              What if this happened constantly, like in script after script after script. You read ten scripts today, and in five of them, the Asian characters are ALL described as "smelling like fish".

                              You're telling me this wouldn't become a real annoyance to you? You wouldn't want to say something to people to convince them to make more of an effort with Asian characters?
                              This argument makes NO sense.

                              We're talking about the word PRETTY - not stinking fish.

                              Since when did being described as "pretty" or strikingly pretty become an annoyance, or, God forbid, an insult to women everywhere??

                              Our culture is literally turning upside down.

                              THAT is an annoyance.
                              "Running down a dream, that never would come to me." Tom Petty

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                              • Re: Does "strikingly pretty" make you want to barf?

                                Originally posted by Manchester View Post
                                OTOH, if I wrote it this way -[INDENT]Page 1, line 1: INT. AN UPSCALE BAR - NIGHT

                                Page 1, line 2: "At the bar, a HANDSOME MAN, 22. A gorgeous smile on his face."

                                Page 1, line 3: "Then BAM - a fist hits that face, the Man goes down."

                                Page 1, line 4: "Standing over him, LAILA, 22, strikingly pretty."

                                And then:

                                LAILA
                                Who's "the bitch" now?
                                .
                                Page 1, line 1: INT. AN UPSCALE BAR - NIGHT

                                Page 1, line 2: "At the bar, a MAN, 22, in a wanna-be stockbroker suit, his tie, loosened, flashes a smile.

                                Page 1, line 3: "Then BAM - a fist hits jaw, the Man goes down."

                                Page 1, line 4: "Standing over him, LAILA, 22, fire in her eyes, sets her boot on his chest.

                                LAILA
                                Who's "the bitch" now?
                                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                                Comment

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