Picking Right Idea

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  • Re: Picking Right Idea

    Here's one I'm thinking about developing:

    After sneaking into America, a terrorist has to lay low until he can meet up with an Isis sleeper cell thats planning a multi city terrorist attack on the anniversary of 9/11, but when he falls in love with the American way of life he's torn between completing his mission and his newly found freedoms that he's fell in love with.

    I'm still working on the idea but that's the gist of it.

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    • Re: Picking Right Idea

      Is that really your logline or are you pitching something existing to see if we bite?

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      • Re: Picking Right Idea

        Uhm, it's def not something existing. At least I hope. It's what I have so far. I'm writing something else right now so I haven't visited the idea in a while, but I plan to continue to think about the concept and the main character.

        I'm not looking to prove anyone wrong, Jeff or make a fool out of anyone. We're just talking. We're debating Nature vs. Nurture, Chicken or The Egg.

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        • Re: Picking Right Idea

          Jeff and members, this post of mine isn't about singling Jeff out and attacking him about his JOHN TUCKER script. The movie worked. It was a commercial success. I'm just using the story idea as an example, which I have used my own story idea, to get across my opinion about Jeff's and others opinion that a story idea needs to be "great.-

          First, let me say, yes, the higher the concept (big, unique hook) the better chance of the industry doors opening up for a non-pro screenwriter to break into the business, but this doesn't mean a writer MUST write a great high concept story idea to break in, which I'll get into later with my post addressed to TigerFang.

          Jeff, you're deeming the JOHN TUCKER story idea as "great- only because of the fact that it sold -- It sold, so that proves it was a great story idea.

          No. In my opinion, Jeff and members, which relates to the topic of this thread, I do not deem a "great- story idea this way (being sold). I deem a great story idea with what Jeff expressed in post #105.

          Jeff's post #105: "My test for an idea is this: "when someone hears it, they can see the movie, and they think 'why hasn't anyone made that yet?'-

          You say the JOHN TUCKER story idea was deemed great because of its story elements of how three ex-girlfriends recruited a girl, and using what they knew about John Tucker, they made him fall in love with her and then have her break HIS heart, just like he'd broken all of their hearts.

          Don't you think MGM and Fox were interested, not because of the story idea was so great, but because of all the variables that came with it: commercial idea, strong targeted audience, sensible budget, it's writer is a proven successful screenwriter presently working in the industry, etc.?

          Imagine a hypothetical situation where there was no JOHN TUCKER movie and a Done Deal member posted the following logline in the LOGLINE forum:

          An awkward teen is groomed by three queen-bee ex-girlfriends of a serial-cheating hot jock to bait a love trap to seduce him to fall for her, and then dump him, breaking his heart.

          The majority of members will agree that it's a commercial story idea. They can see characters and scenes unfold on the movie screen, but will they say -- Wow! Why hasn't anyone made that yet?

          In 2006, if a non-pro screenwriter sent this logline off to the industry, will they say "Why hasn't anyone made this yet- and their doors fly open welcoming the non-pro writer?

          This story idea will not receive that kind of reaction because it's not a high concept idea, though it seems you disagree with me, believing there's a big hook.

          The hook is that the awkward new girl is made over and given guidance by vengeful ex-girlfriends of a jock to capture his heart, and then break it.

          In my opinion, JOHN TUCKER is an average concept (hook) for the romantic comedy fan base where it turned out that its execution connected with the audience, making it a commercial success.

          This story idea is derivative of other make over movies, such as, the 1999 release of the teen romantic comedy SHE'S ALL THAT, but the purpose of the make over is because of a bet. In JOHN TUCKER, the purpose of the make over is to seduce John Tucker and break his heart.

          My previous derivative comment was used because of the ex-spouse and revenge element, such as with the 1997 release of "Addicted to Love,- starring Meg Ryan and Matthew Broderick.

          Of course, the details of these stories are not gonna be exact. Same/familiar major story element(s), but different dramatic and emotional journey to the story's destination.

          Example of a high concept romantic comedy: "Splash,- where Tom Hanks falls in love with a woman who happens to be a mermaid.

          Other examples: "Groundhog Day,- "Tootsie,- "Roman Holiday,- "Roxanne, -Sabrina,- "Sleepless in Seattle,- "There's Something About Mary,- "13 Going on 30,- (even though it's derivative of Tom Hank's BIG), etc.

          Jeff, I don't like to get into debates and discussions with you because there are some members who fear I will get you frustrated and so annoyed where you'll leave the site.

          I know you're not this fragile. If you were, you would have left a long time ago, but there are some members who don't care and get upset with me where they would personally attack me with their nonsense.

          So, I'm gonna address my further point about this "Picking Right Idea- topic at TigarFang's quote.

          Jeff, I do have a side question: What was the page count of JOHN TUCKER'S shooting script? The movie run time of JOHN TUCKER is 89 minutes. Was that because of the dialogue scenes and/or film editing, or was that in the area of the page count?

          Comment


          • Re: Picking Right Idea

            Originally posted by Satriales View Post
            The balls on this guy. 😆
            Thank you for noticing. Yes, I'm quite proud of them.

            Comment


            • Re: Picking Right Idea

              It seems some people think if you make a sale in the rom-com/teen genre that the script is fluff and not the kind of material they want to write. People gave David Steinberg flack because he wrote Slackers and he left here too.

              I mean it still takes know-how, smarts, creativity to execute. Even in a very poppy genre like teen rom-coms.

              If anyone of us got a call from a producer who read our script and said "Look, you're script is decent but not marketable but I have this teen rom-com I think you'd be perfect for and I'd like to hire you to write it."

              Not one of us would turn that down.

              Comment


              • Re: Picking Right Idea

                Originally posted by TigerFang View Post
                A "great- screenplay idea is one that has commercial appeal for its demographic and is a well-executed story, irrespective of any opinion of its artistic merit.
                This thread is about picking the right idea. To write a great story idea. Who judges which story idea is the right idea? Who judges what story idea is great or not? Buyers? Agents? The writer? Done Deal members?

                In the LOGLINE forum, sometimes I see members tell the writer posting his concept/logline that it's a bad story idea, or it's a mediocre story idea, etc.

                Telling a writer this is soooo wrong. You're judging his material and discouraging him without even seeing how he executes his story idea, where it could be a winner.

                Now, this is where someone will say that if it's a mediocre/ordinary story idea, no industry person will request the writer's script off of reading the logline.

                There are other ways to get a script some attention where an industry person will request a read.

                M. Night Shyamalan once said, about choosing which story idea to write, he goes with his gut feeling. He said that he doesn't get outside opinions because if they have any negativity toward his story idea he won't write it.

                I would tell a writer that the logline construction, elements, details or whatever is bad, confusing, or doesn't work, because of this or that and give suggestions on what I believe would work, but as far as the concept/logline, if it wasn't commercial, I would say so, only to give him a heads up that sending off a query would most likely not work in getting an industry door to open up to read the script. He would have to attach some type of heat.

                Concepts run a range from:

                Low Concept ________________________________________High Concept

                At the beginning of the spectrum with Low Concept, you'll find the story idea/screenplay to be deemed uncommercial because it possesses one or more of the following elements: dark and gloomy themes, small, or no hook, bummer endings, complex plots, small scope (low budget), depressing journey, niche audience, etc.

                Naturally, the closer you get to the top of the high concept end the stronger its commercial appeal will be with such elements as: relatable, universal themes, big hook, happy endings, simple plot, medium or high budget (tentpole movie), wide/broad audience, much conflict, etc.

                On picking the right story idea:

                If I were to post the following story idea/concept -- a ballerina struggles to keep her sanity -- there is no doubt in my mind that the majority of members would say the idea is a loser, boring, uncommercial, etc., but the execution of this story idea was produced on a budget of $13,000,000 and grossed $330,000,000 (BLACK SWAN).

                Yes, this story idea wouldn't work in a query to industry people to get reads, but there are other ways for the writer to get reads, though I'm not saying it's easy.

                There are other critical and commercially successful low concept, dark story ideas:

                "25th Hour,- starring Ed Norton, budget $5,000,000, gross $24,000,000, critic rating 85%; "In the Bedroom,- starring Sissy Spacek, budget $2,000,000, gross $45,000,000, critic rating 93%; "Monsters Ball,- starring Billy Bob Thornton and Halle Berry, budget $4,000,000, gross $45,000,000, critic rating 85% and;

                "The Piano,- starring Holly Hunter, budget $7,000,000, gross $40,000,000, critic rating 92%.

                Logline: A mute Scotswoman, who expresses herself through her piano playing, travels to New Zealand for an arranged marriage with a wealthy landowner, but is lusted after by a local worker.

                Sure, there have been dark, low concept stories that weren't commercially successful, but this is the same outcome with high concepts. Some will be successful some won't, but the difference is no one will tell a writer that the unique high concept story idea that they want to write is bad, telling them not to write it as with what will happen with the low concept writers, where we, the audience, will miss out on some fine work.

                Let's take a look at commercial ideas, but not high concept. What do you think about this story idea:

                When an underachiever teen falls for an overachiever girl during the summer, he must conquer her heart before she leaves for England to attend college.

                You would tell the writer it's mediocre, right? This logline is SAY ANYTHING, budget $4,000,000, gross $22,000,000, critic rating 98%. Yes, it got produced because its writer, Cameron Crowe, was a successful screenwriter, having written "Fast Times at Ridgemont High,- but this doesn't mean if this story idea was executed by a non-pro writer, he couldn't have got it sold, or used it as a sample for assignment work.

                If this writer would have listened to the people who told him it was a mediocre story idea and not to write it, but to write a "great- idea instead, we, the moviegoer, would never have had seen this great, emotional and entertaining story.

                How about (logline from IMDB): Two potheads wake up after a night of partying and cannot remember where they parked their car.

                Seems uninteresting, but DUDE, WHERE'S MY CAR was a commercial success with a budget of $13,000,000 and a gross of $73,000,000. It was a critical bomb, and I'll add deservedly so, with a critic rating of 17%, but it worked, resonating with its targeted audience.

                If a writer was just as passionate to write a low concept or high concept story, I would suggest that he write the high concept because it would increase his chances on getting reads from the industry.

                There are some who say for a writer to choose to execute an ordinary story idea instead of thinking of a great story idea is a sign that he's an amateur and not a professional writer.

                I do not agree. If a writer feels he has the chops to execute a great screenplay, or just the right screenplay that would resonate with an industry person/moviegoer audience from an ordinary story idea, then go ahead and write it.

                Some of my suggestions for a writer to choose what project/story idea to invest his time and energy to execute is the following:

                Do you believe the story idea is interesting?
                Is it a movie you would see?
                Do you have the passion to write it?
                Does it sound commercial?
                Is it castable?
                Is it fresh/original?
                Is it familiar, but with a unique angle?
                Does it possess conflict (drama)?
                Does it have a targeted audience?
                Will its execution resonate with its targeted audience?
                Does the budget make sense?

                Comment


                • Re: Picking Right Idea

                  Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                  It seems some people think if you make a sale in the rom-com/teen genre that the script is fluff and not the kind of material they want to write. People gave David Steinberg flack because he wrote Slackers and he left here too.

                  I mean it still takes know-how, smarts, creativity to execute. Even in a very poppy genre like teen rom-coms.
                  Cyfress, I think you didn't get my point on this topic. And I'm writing a non-high concept teen romantic comedy, which I'm sure some will say the story idea is derivative, but I like the journey of the characters. A weaker version advanced in the Scriptapoolaza or Page contest, not sure which one.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Picking Right Idea

                    Last summer, driving on the highway, I zoomed over this incredible trail of bright red blood. Buckets of it, it seemed.

                    The car in front of me didn't slow or stop or jerk out of the way of anything, so I assumed whatever the blood belonged to had already been pushed to the shoulder. I prayed it wasn't the remnants of a crash, that some terrible car wreck hadn't caused someone to lose his or her life.

                    When I got closer to it, I could see it clearly. The severed head of a deer. It's askew body was up further, another line of bright red blood leading to it.

                    It had tried to run across the highway, no doubt, and in the haze and confusion of the oncoming traffic had met its death.

                    I wondered briefly what it thought -- did it realize it was wrong to try and cross all six lanes of a north and south bound highway, plus a median? Did it look around, at the asphalt, the concrete barriers, and the rushing vehicles and sense it was making a mistake? Did it have inherent fear? Or did it just blindly run, hoping for the best, as if fate would catch it and cradle it in its arms, deliver it to the other side safely, and tell it it was a special shiny star?

                    This thread reminds me of that.

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                    • Re: Picking Right Idea

                      Originally posted by Bono View Post
                      For instance, a bad idea was starting this thread.
                      This guy gets it.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Picking Right Idea

                        Bono said, "For instance, a bad idea was starting this thread."

                        Was it something I said?



                        (If you didn't catch, you don't need to answer. Just kidding.)

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                        • Re: Picking Right Idea

                          Joe, I wasn't saying you were attacking Jeff. Just that lots of people think writing in that genre is "less than- writing.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Picking Right Idea

                            Joe, I appreciate the attempt, but you're not going to convince me that my spec that I sold and got produced (one of my three credited and probably ten uncredited studio features) didn't have a compelling story at its heart. Sorry!

                            And look, when you're citing Black Swan (developed by an Oscar nominated director who every actor is dying to work with), The Piano (written by an award winning director for herself to direct) and 25th hour (based on a hit novel), among others, as examples for a strategy for amateur screenwriters' specs, I think you're comparing apples to oranges.

                            I hope I'm wrong about your script. I hope you sell it for a googol dollars and still come back here and help people. Best of luck!

                            Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                            Here’s one I’m thinking about developing:

                            After sneaking into America, a terrorist has to lay low until he can meet up with an Isis sleeper cell thats planning a multi city terrorist attack on the anniversary of 9/11, but when he falls in love with the American way of life he’s torn between completing his mission and his newly found freedoms that he’s fell in love with.

                            I’m still working on the idea but that’s the gist of it.
                            First off, I can see this as a subplot in a TV show - our hero encounters a terrorist who's seduced by America and loses faith in the cause. Or a comedy sketch - that's the exact premise of a Key & Peele sketch.

                            But as you pitched it, is it a movie?

                            Your protagonist is an Islamic terrorist trying to attack America. You don't have an antagonist. It doesn't suggest any action. You have a guy laying low and doing stuff. Your only conflict is internal: a man has to decide whether he'd rather slaughter Americans or keep drinking alcohol and voting.

                            Does that sound like a movie to you?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Picking Right Idea

                              It's a WIP. I'm still playing with it. I was thinking of the hero being half American. Maybe an American father that he never met but he was raised in the Middle East.

                              I don't watch Key and Peele so if they had a sketch with this premise then I didn't know about it.

                              How come when you first read it you were worried I ripped it off from a produced movie and was trying to trick you. Now, all you fav sudden it's not a movie.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Picking Right Idea

                                Here's the thing. Let's assume you execute this perfectly. The antagonist is a bigoted FBI agent. It's beautiful. But execs and buyers are gutless. And I don't mean that in a bad way. They just aren't going to take risks like that. And on top of that they fvcking love to give the "needs to be more likable" note. Now, let's layer 9/11 (indirectly) on top of that. Can I tell you how tough a subject that is? I have what I think is the definitive 9/11 HERO story. It's gorgeous. I've executed. I've got it to legendary directors. They like it. But they're scared of it. "9/11 is tough." I happen to think they're wrong, but man, it's a tough market. The Only Plane In The Sky is dead at MGM. Affleck's 9/11 thing at Warners isn't going anywhere. You think you're coming in with a low concept deal with the protag being, well, not a good guy to start? Good luck.

                                I don't dislike subversive material, at all. I just think it's tough. Out of the goodness of my heart I'll award you half a point and round up. I don't think it's a movie but maybe it's fantastic. Let's move on to the next one.

                                Curious how long this has been a WIP for?

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