Picking Right Idea

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  • Re: Picking Right Idea

    NIGHT VISION -- A tween learn she has super powers when her town loses power and she realizes she can see perfectly in the dark and she sees things no one else in the world can see.

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    • Re: Picking Right Idea

      Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
      Sucks. I hate when the power goes out. I usually sit in the dark thinking how the f*ck did those Pilgrims do it?
      Probably missionary.

      .
      Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

      -Steve Trautmann
      3rd & Fairfax: The WGAW Podcast

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      • Re: Picking Right Idea

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGAMbNKcN1U
        Last edited by JeffLowell; 08-04-2020, 09:03 PM.

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        • Re: Picking Right Idea

          Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
          Joe, I appreciate the attempt, but you're not going to convince me that my spec that I sold and got produced (one of my three credited and probably ten uncredited studio features) didn't have a compelling story at its heart. Sorry!

          And look, when you're citing Black Swan (developed by an Oscar nominated director who every actor is dying to work with), The Piano (written by an award winning director for herself to direct) and 25th hour (based on a hit novel), among others, as examples for a strategy for amateur screenwriters' specs, I think you're comparing apples to oranges.
          "you're not going to convince me that my spec ... didn't have a compelling story at its heart. Sorry!"

          No. No. No. You think I've insulted you and this is what I was afraid of. This is why I stressed that JOHN TUCKER was successful and that I've seen the movie and enjoyed it.

          This isn't about the JOHN TUCKER story/movie. This is about story ideas as pertaining to this thread about picking the right story idea/picking a great story idea.

          In a previous post, you mentioned that you play with 50 ideas a year and if you're lucky you come up with one great one every two or three years. To me, you're implying to the community that they need to come up with great ideas to be successful.

          I was just using the JOHN TUCKER story idea -- not the executed screenplay -- as an example that a story idea doesn't need to be great. It could be the RIGHT story idea, where it's executed into a screenplay, for a buyer and a moviegoer audience. Yes, I said that the story idea was derivative, which I believe is what upset you, but I said the execution, the journey of the story was entertaining. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have been a commercial success.

          About my low concept examples, you go into the pedigree of the people involved and the fact that "25th Hour" was a novel. Some of these examples came from novels and some didn't, but didn't all of this start with a story idea that was executed into a screenplay?

          Don't you think there are non-pros out there that could write at the same caliber as the examples that I have given?

          Wasn't screenwriter David Benioff at one time a non-pro. Or, replace David Benioff with any in demand screenwriter who didn't start out as a novelist.

          Sure, if your point is that these stories got made because of the caliber of the people involved, yes, certainly that's the case for the majority, but my point is that there are non-pro writers who have the talent and passion to write these type of stories and if a Done Deal member told him it's a boring, bad idea and tell him to think of a GREAT story idea, then this writer will miss out on writing a great piece of work, and we, the audience, will miss out on seeing a wonderful story.

          Yes, it'll be difficult to get this type of story sold, but everyone knows that a long career in the industry doesn't involve selling a screenplay. It involves for-hire-work and showing the industry you have the ability of high caliber writing of characters, dialogue, structure, etc., which these low concept screenplays demonstrate because with these type of stories, it's not about the concept. It's about the quality of writing.

          Jeff, I wasn't looking to suck you back into this thread and keep you away from your work. I just wanted to clarify in no way -- in my opinion anyway -- that I was trying to insult you.
          Last edited by JoeNYC; 08-05-2020, 02:04 AM.

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          • Re: Picking Right Idea

            Has anyone here read "The Idea" by Erik Bork?

            Spoiler: He thinks the idea is important.

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            • Re: Picking Right Idea

              Jeff, this is how our debate would go in person. Guess what part you'd play....

              https://youtu.be/Xz7HtZR1Vuo

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              • Re: Picking Right Idea

                Originally posted by Mitchell McLean View Post
                Has anyone here read "The Idea" by Erik Bork?

                Spoiler: He thinks the idea is important.
                In the 22 pages of this thread, who said the story idea isn't important?

                If a writer wants to sell a screenplay to a Major Studio, then his best chance to achieving this is coming up with a High Concept idea, which would be considered a GREAT commercial idea, where people will say, "Wow! I wish I thought of that."

                One of my points was that a story idea/logline that's commercial, but not High Concept, where people will say it's ordinary, derivative, uninteresting, not great, etc., but its execution of that story idea worked, could sell, or get the writer assignment work, if it's the RIGHT script at the RIGHT time for the RIGHT buyer.

                Another point was that it's wrong and discouraging to tell a writer that his Low Concept story idea is boring and bad, not to write it and to think of a GREAT idea instead. It's because of what I said previously. Low Concept story ideas is not about the concept. It's about the quality of the writing.

                Take a look at the history of the Nicholl Fellowship and count how many High Concept winners there are. Not many. Maybe one or two (I haven't checked). The majority of the concept winners will be on the lower end on the concept spectrum (Low Concept) and this is how some writers broke into the industry. Not by writing a great, high concept screenplay, but writing something they were passionate about.

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                • Re: Picking Right Idea

                  Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                  Jeff, this is how our debate would go in person. Guess what part you’d play....

                  https://youtu.be/Xz7HtZR1Vuo
                  Well, you either think you’re a lunatic or a guy that gets slapped in the face. That’s interesting, Cyfress. Which one do you think you are?

                  Joe, my point is that you’re citing projects that probably couldn’t have been made if they’d started as a spec script from a new writer. Also, I never said "low concept = bad."

                  ETA: I haven't tackled high concept vs low concept at all in this thread, nor do I want to, because I think they both need to have an interesting original idea at their core.
                  Last edited by JeffLowell; 08-05-2020, 05:07 AM.

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                  • Re: Picking Right Idea

                    Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                    Well, you either think you're a lunatic or a guy that gets slapped in the face. That's interesting, Cyfress. Which one do you think you are?

                    Joe, my point is that you're citing projects that probably couldn't have been made if they'd started as a spec script from a new writer.
                    Yes, I agree, but my point was that quality writing like those Low Concept scripts that I mentioned could get a non-pro writer attention either from a contest, referral, contacts, relationships, etc., where the writer may not be able to sell it, but the writing could get him work on other projects, but yes, Major Studios are looking mainly for High Concepts.

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                    • Re: Picking Right Idea

                      Joe, I added a sentence to my post before you replied re: high v low concept.

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                      • Re: Picking Right Idea

                        Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post

                        ETA: I haven't tackled high concept vs low concept at all in this thread, nor do I want to, because I think they both need to have an interesting original idea at their core.
                        Oh my, you do know how to suck me in, but I'm not gonna take the bait. I'm not gonna address this. You need to get back to work.

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                        • Re: Picking Right Idea

                          Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                          Jeff, this is how our debate would go in person. Guess what part you'd play....

                          https://youtu.be/Xz7HtZR1Vuo
                          did you just bust out Restaurant Impossible on a thread about 'Picking the Right Idea'?

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0l5ZOeM-a0
                          Ricky Slade: Listen to me, I intentionally make this gun look that way because I am smart.

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                          • Re: Picking Right Idea

                            Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                            That was fun.

                            I think JOHN TUCKER MUST DIE is a great idea. Thought so the first time I heard it and think so now.

                            SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is also a GREAT idea because it's a story, as human beings, we can all related to-- loss and the fear of a loved one's safety.

                            When choosing an idea I ask myself, is it:
                            High concept
                            Commercial
                            Familiar with a twist
                            International appeal
                            Contained thrillers (new consideration)
                            Would I watch it

                            I'm not looking to write an Oscar script. I write genre films. Sci-fi action thrillers.

                            Oh yeah and one high concept rom-com. I know, I know, I shouldn't have done that, but I did.

                            In today's market, and I'm a nobody, so take what I say with a grain of salt, you have really target your idea if it's going to get any traction, in ANY way.

                            Why spend all the effort and time on an idea that is mediocre? Your idea has to set itself apart from others.

                            Producers care about what they can make. If it's commercial and high concept, you've got two very big plusses on your side.

                            And if you're not a total hack they may even let you do a rewrite or two.

                            What do I know?

                            Not much. But this is what I believe.
                            FA4
                            "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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                            • Re: Picking Right Idea

                              Originally posted by Bono View Post
                              Listen, can we focus on the important thing?. I don't have power right now like most of the east coast. The first one of you who restores it has my support even if I disagreed with you before.
                              I feel you. And second you.

                              I still don't have power either. The pool is full of debris, a 100 ft tree is down in the yard and I had to restart a email to my lawyer yesterday, I kid you not, 25 times before the power (on again, off again) went out for good. Strangers with flashlights sneaking around in the yard like in KNOWING.

                              The generator eats a lot of gas.
                              "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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                              • Re: Picking Right Idea

                                Of course the idea matters. How could the idea that the script is based on not be important? But ideas are a dime a dozen. Story is king. These are axioms of Hollywood not made up by me so if it is completely bonkers to think this way then there's lots of crazy people running around.

                                I think it's what you can do with an idea that matters. Can you build on it, flesh it out, find the dramatic tension, mold it, refine it. To me this is part of the execution process. This is something you need to do if you want to write something worth a dam.

                                But if you had a skill to choose between being able to construct these high concept ideas that beautifully illustrate the dramatic tension in the story or being a master craftsman. Being able to deliver on script ideas. Able to take an idea from a producer or exec and go home and write a great script.

                                I'd choose being a master craftsman.

                                And the whole plot angle of women secretly plotting against a man that's scorned them is not new. Been used long before Jeff used it. Diabolique came out in 1955 and used it, so did the remake in like the late 80s or early nineties. Jeff used the device in a different genre so the goal wasn't to kill but to break his heart. It's an idea that's been done and it can work or not work depending on the craftsmanship.

                                Jeff, I'm the lunatic and you're the soft, meek young man that gets quiet when sh!t gets real. Come on.
                                Last edited by Cyfress; 08-05-2020, 07:30 AM.

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