Identity Thief

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  • Re: Identity Thief

    Originally posted by figment
    I have written both comedies and dramas, that's why I am saying it. Have you?
    I don't think you realize who you are talking to...Robert knows what he's talking about...oh and btw, he's a pro.
    The best way out is always through. - Robert Frost

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    • Re: Identity Thief

      Originally posted by figment
      I doubt the writers of Bridesmaids said, "Damn, if only we'd chosen to write Argo, this would be so much easier!" -- OR vice versa.
      You can doubt and assume and suppose all you want (and it's okay.... we're all entitled to our opinions) but when I think of the great comedy screenwriters- Billy Wilder, Woody Allen, Elaine May, Joel & Ethan Coen - every single one of them has been Oscar nominated for their dramatic writing.

      But then I look at some great dramatic writers- Stephen Gaghan, Steven Zaillan, Tony Gilroy, Aaron Sorkin - they don't even attempt comedy. And it's not because they're afraid of confusing their brand.

      It's harder, is all I'm saying.

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      • Re: Identity Thief

        You could just as easily say that Billy Wilder is a dramatic writer who was also successful at comedy. How about William Goldman, which camp is he in?

        It's a strange argument, if comedy is harder why don't struggling comedy writers do a few dramas or action films to pay the bills or get some recognition so they can write their comedy? Is it because writing any great story is incredibly difficult but some people are better at some genres than others?

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        • Re: Identity Thief

          Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
          You can doubt and assume and suppose all you want (and it's okay.... we're all entitled to our opinions) but when I think of the great comedy screenwriters- Billy Wilder, Woody Allen, Elaine May, Joel & Ethan Coen - every single one of them has been Oscar nominated for their dramatic writing.

          But then I look at some great dramatic writers- Stephen Gaghan, Steven Zaillan, Tony Gilroy, Aaron Sorkin - they don't even attempt comedy. And it's not because they're afraid of confusing their brand.

          It's harder, is all I'm saying.
          Just for the record: Aaron Sorkin writes comedy and drama. In fact, I thought he started in comedy. No?
          "The Hollywood film business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S Thompson

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          • Re: Identity Thief

            Why are you guys arguing about this?

            Great writing is difficult to master. Full stop.

            Please get back on the topic. Thanks!
            Chicks Who Script podcast

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            • Re: Identity Thief

              I agree with Emily, it wasn't my intention to derail this thread honoring Craig. I don't mind being challenged on my views; I've written both comedy and drama, and in my experience there is a lot more pressure to keep the laughs coming (the indicator of which is immediate) versus avoiding the landmine of melodrama (which audiences seem to be a little more willing to forgive).

              And to Craig: back to #1 at the box office again with $93.6M estimated cume. Suck on that, critics!

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              • Re: Identity Thief

                Originally posted by figment
                What? Um... a Critics job isn't to predict if a movie will find an audience, it's their job to give their thoughts about a film. Whether or not their individual thoughts and the box office returns line up is irrelevent to their job.
                If find it pretty inconceivable that a film without massive stars and without a prior brand can do close to $100m in two weeks if it as bad as some of the critics have been saying. As I've been harping on about, word of mouth is crucial for this type of film.

                In that way, I think there's a disconnect between their individual and combined opinions and the actual product.

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                • Re: Identity Thief

                  Originally posted by figment
                  Craig, imbd news says the studio is actively pursuing an Identity Thief sequel.

                  Is that true? And if so, do you get a shot at writing it?

                  http://www.imdb.com/news/ni47456838/?ref_=hm_nw_mv_t1
                  Yes, if we do it, I will write it. It's really about Melissa and Jason. If they want to do it, I would do it. If they don't, I won't.

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                  • Re: Identity Thief

                    Originally posted by MrZero View Post
                    I finally read the transcript of the podcast.

                    I don't know how to say this without sounding obnoxiously flippant, but it's sad that Craig had the number #1 movie for the weekend, but he apparently spent days curled up in a ball with a copy of The Gay Science all because a handful of critics (including the star of Myra Breckinridge) posted negative reviews. For God's sake, go party with Charlie Sheen or something. Be happy.

                    As someone who has occasionally chatted with a few Rotten Tomatoes critics, I don't get the impression that they're mediums who channel the Cosmic Wisdom of the Universe. They're just schmucks with laptops (to modify an ancient insult).
                    That makes total sense. And you're right. You're being very rational.

                    I was being very irrational. Emotions have a way of doing that.

                    Grief, for instance, isn't rational. What's the point? Dead's dead, that's that.

                    And yet...

                    Similarly, when you read attacks on your name, you... or maybe just I... FEEL bad. I wish feelings were so easily managed that they melted away under the withering stare of rationality, but... they don't. They seem to have a mind and life of their own.

                    So when they pop up... what to do?

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                    • Re: Identity Thief

                      Originally posted by cap7 View Post
                      I enjoy listening to Craig on the podcast and he seems like a really great guy but does that mean he can't be partially responsible for a bad movie?
                      Of course! Or more than partially responsible, for that matter.

                      In this case, however, I disagreed with the critics. I don't think it's a bad movie. It's certainly far from perfect or great or anything like that, but I still like it. A lot.

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                      • Re: Identity Thief

                        Originally posted by Craig Mazin View Post

                        So when they pop up... what to do?
                        Drink.
                        "Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!- - Ghostbusters

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                        • Re: Identity Thief

                          Originally posted by cap7 View Post
                          The movie is successful therefore critics are wrong?
                          Certainly not. Well, I mean first... let's just say this... "good" and "bad" are useful at the extremes. The Godfather is "good" and "Plan 9 From Outer Space" is "bad." But for the great majority of movies in between the extremes, reasonable people will disagree, depending on taste and so forth.

                          I got an awesome call from Fred Wolf today, who loved Identity Thief. Fred did a ton of uncredited work on Tommy Boy, which is one of my favorite comedies.

                          Tommy Boy got its ass handed to it by a great many critics when it came out. It wasn't even particularly successful at the box office. But does any of that mean it's "good" or "bad"? To me... no.

                          I guess what I'm saying is that the consensus of critics indicates nothing more than whether or not the movie is the sort of film a consensus of critics like.

                          The bigger test is the consensus of the audience *over time*. And if I had to predict, I would say Identity Thief will be largely forgotten by people who aren't into it, but largely remembered fondly but a good amount of people who dug it. It's not one of those movies everyone agrees on as good or bad.

                          But the people who do like it seem to *really* like it, which is very gratifying. The only thing our relatively small box office drops indicate is that there *is* good word of mouth, and the movie *is* appealing to a large group of people.

                          For now.

                          Look, I'm not a big fan of the Transformer movies. But twenty years from now, what will the consensus be on those films, when all the kids who saw it at 14 are now grown up and writing blogs?

                          I read a tweet where someone called Identity Thief a shitty version of Tommy Boy, and another person said, "Don't you dare mention that piece of crap in the same sentence as Tommy Boy!"

                          Huh. Look at that. Tommy Boy is now something beloved to at least a few opinionated types out there.

                          That's cool, actually. Gives me hope.

                          The whole dichotomy of movies for the critics vs. movies for the audience rings false to me (both in general and when it comes to comedies). First Hangover did well with critics. As did Knocked Up, Superbad, Zombieland, The Other Guys, Bridesmaids and 21 Jump Street. Those were not highbrow at all. They were meant to entertain the audience and make people laugh and yet somehow managed to garner critical acclaim as well.
                          Agreed. Happens all the time. Ted is the latest example.

                          Is it hard to do? Sure. But some people act like it's impossible, so we might as well not look at critics at all, because they will never like a mainstream comedy, which is not true at all.
                          Correct. That is not true. However, it's also not true that absence of critical acclaim means the movie is bad, or means the movie won't be reevaluated later, or means the movie won't be remembered and supported by the people who loved it (and merely forgotten by the people who didn't).

                          Basically, critical acclaim for mainstream comedy sort of doesn't mean anything. I love Groundhog Day. Critics don't have anything to do with it. I love Tommy Boy. Critics don't have anything to do with it.

                          Naming an example is one thing. Saying it's a widespread practice (which is what Mr. August was claiming I believe) is a whole different story. I have no problem believing there are some people like that out there, but to say that aggregate reviews would be vastly superior if the names were switched is going too far in my opinion.
                          I think John was engaging in a hypothesis that is worth discussing somewhere by some people, but not by me. Like I said in that podcast, I'm not interested in trying to explain the why or how of critics.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Identity Thief

                            Just wanna chime in here because I owe a lot of being "discovered" or "getting repped" or "finally being paid to do what I love" to Craig.

                            He's an awesome person and a great writer and unbelievably astute at magnifying the flaws of a story and figuring out how to fix them.

                            To date, the best notes I have ever received on a script were from Craig (no offense, Botti!)...

                            And because I'm no wealthy man, to repay Craig for his generosity and unmatched kindness, I corralled a group of friends to see Identity Thief with the promise that they would not be disappointed (only a couple were hesitant).

                            We all piled into a clown car Mexican-style and hit up the nearest Movie Tavern (do you have those in CA?). We ordered a few Viking-sized brews and shared some appetizers and, along with nearly the entire audience, we thoroughly enjoyed the time we spent watching Melissa McCarthy outrun Jason Bateman.

                            There were some criticisms and, yes, there was some eye-rolling. But you know what? No one in that theater left without laughing. No one left without smiling.

                            And no one in my group disliked the time we spent together enjoying a great (early) blockbuster with some beers, food and laughs.

                            Thank you, Craig, for the opportunity you gave me and for the films I, and many others, have enjoyed. I wish you many future successes and am wholeheartedly happy that Identity Thief has been one of them.

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                            • Re: Identity Thief

                              Thanks, ATB.

                              I also have some criticisms and some eye-rolling! I know the critics are seemingly unaware, but we screenwriters don't always get what we want.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Identity Thief

                                Hey Craig,

                                Congrats on the success you're having with Identity Thief. It sounds like you're in a much more positive place with regard to the critical response, so congrats on that too.

                                Something that I would love to hear you and John discuss on Scriptnotes is how your theme (or central dramatic argument) influenced your decision making as you wrote your script.

                                99.9% of discussions of theme is always after the fact analysis of a film's theme. But we rarely (if ever) get to hear why a writer made the specific decisions he made during the writing of the script. So I'd love for you guys to deconstruct your process a little bit for your latest releases (Identity Thief and Frankenweenie) and discuss how you used your intended dramatic arguments to help you decide what scenes to include and what actions your characters take, etc. I think that would be fascinating and something I've always wanted to hear from a pro.

                                Thanks, and congratulations again!

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