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Old 04-25-2010, 09:17 PM   #41
Terrance Mulloy
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Default Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

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Originally Posted by gravitas View Post
Did you hear about this one? I really dig this guy's style. (Sorry if it's already been brought up)

http://www.collider.com/2010/04/08/c...lm-adaptation/
Yeah, The Gift was cool.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:38 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

Another thing - I doubt this cost $5000 to make as reported.

The RED one camera he used to shoot itself costs $17,500, and the prime lenses cost another $19,000. All U.S. dollars, btw. And I'm assuming he never borrowed the camera off a very trustworthy friend. Or he could have rented/leased one, which would have cost far less, but still expensive.

Plus the 3D modelling, rendering and compositing software cost around $3000 a piece for a commercial license or maybe even more. Also the shoot might have taken just 2 days, but the visual effects would have taken much longer. At industry rates the crew alone would have cost more than $5000. Again, I'm assuming he had legit software and not pirated versions, and he did not do all the VFX himself. If he did, then he's one talented mofo. Edit: Looking at the credits there's quite a few people who worked on this.

And don't forget the film score.

I'll take a wild guess and say the real number is probably more like $50,000. Still very impressive though. I hear he's already had some solid offers thrown at him.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:40 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

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Originally Posted by Terrance Mulloy View Post
Another thing - I doubt this cost $5000 to make as reported.

The RED one camera he used to shoot itself costs $17,500, and the prime lenses cost another $19,000. All U.S. dollars, btw. And I'm assuming he never borrowed the camera off a very trustworthy friend.

Plus the 3D modelling, rendering and compositing software cost around $3000 a piece for a commercial license or maybe even more. Also the shoot might have taken just 2 days, but the visual effects would have taken much longer. At industry rates the crew alone would have cost more than $5000. Again, I'm assuming he had legit software and not pirated versions.

I'll take a wild guess and say the real number is probably more like $50,000. Still very impressive though. I hear he's already had some solid offers thrown at him.
That's what we were talking about earlier. It's $5000 with a bunch of cut corners that couldn't actually translate to a major production.

You can say that you made something for X dollars if you call in favors and don't factor in the cost of borrowed equipment and fill the cast and crew with friends working for free and do all of the many hours of post-production work in your basement with an effective dollar value of $0 and shoot guerrilla style and don't get permits and on and on and on, but none of that translates to being able to make a studio feature on a tight budget because you won't be able to cut a single one of those corners on a legit film production.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:41 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

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That makes no sense to me.

This is really cool...as a demonstration of a skillset that has been misidentified.

Why should any writer be compelled to show off his talent at digital effects?
jboffer's criticism was that the short lacked substance and featured poor storytelling. What exactly is stopping him from making a well-told short of "substance" (zero effects) and uploading it to youtube? Absolutely nothing.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:20 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

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Originally Posted by Furious Anjel View Post
jboffer's criticism was that the short lacked substance and featured poor storytelling. What exactly is stopping him from making a well-told short of "substance" (zero effects) and uploading it to youtube? Absolutely nothing.
If you're wondering why I don't do shorts, it's because I find them a waste of time. A comedy short isn't going to get Hollywood's attention. They're looking for the shiny objects, like I've been saying all along.

Also, it's not worth investing your time in something that won't be top notch. I'd want to film a shorts that have high production values as well as strong story telling. I don't have the equipment, actors, crew or money to accomplish that. My time is put much better to use focusing on the long-term goal of improving my screenwriting than spending on production, where I'll never be anyway. But if you want to put my short scripts to film with your investment/crew/talent, I'll gladly write you something.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:09 PM   #46
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Default Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

Someone needs to tell the Coen Brothers, Pixar, and Paul Thomas Anderson that they need to stop making movies and give back all the money they've made over the years.

They used short films to help generate financing for feature films. Sinnycal and Jboffer do not approve of their shenanigans.

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Old 04-26-2010, 12:17 AM   #47
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Default Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

Look guys, we can criticize the story until we're blue in the face, and in the end none of us will be right or wrong. The quality of the story is subjective. It sounds like consensus is leaning towards "the story sucks", but it doesn't matter. The director generated heat with it, so mission accomplished for the director.

But here's the rub for a screenwriter: why does the director deserve to generate heat, when the story is crap, and story is #1? Probably because he directed the hell out of it. Let me qualify that. The movie looks gorgeous, it makes a good case for what the RED camera can do. I don't think many of us are arguing that. They shot this in a weekend, with limited resources. I don't think many of us can argue that it could have possibly been an easy shoot, anyone who has ever been on a film set sees the action scenes, multiple locations, downtown core surroundings, and etc: dollar signs everywhere. Some of us are arguing that this wasn't in fact made in a weekend, there was probably months of post and the real cost of the thing would probably be much higher if it weren't put together the standard short film way: everyone worked gratis. I would argue that any director who can get a crew and digital artists etc. to work for free is demonstrating a key director skill set: generating good faith in their leadership. Which leaves storytelling, something that every director should be good at, something that we're in contention about with this particular director.

And my opinion is that we don't have enough information about this director's storytelling abilities. Even if you could prove that this short is a poorly told story, and you can't, that still wouldn't prove that the director can't tell a story. Or that the director hasn't tapped a writer who can tell a story, a writer who may or may not have had anything to do with this short. What this short proves is that the director can put together a slick piece of product with limited resources, and so as a director showreel it works beautifully. We don't know what kind of meetings this guy has had, or if in fact he will be shown the door when they actually sit down and read his script. We don't know if this short has been in post for a year, and during that year they've been fine-tuning a hell of a script.

We just don't know, and it's silly to speculate either way. The movie will get made, or it won't, and it will suck, or be good. Lessons will be learned. But this much more about directing than writing. This is not a "why write scripts when you can produce short films with no story and get a deal" type of thing. It's about directors getting projects off the ground with visual examples of their abilities. Ideally they'd also have a masterpiece of a five page script to turn into five minutes of pretty pictures, but it's not the be all end all. It's not much different than a director giving a studio concept art or a demo reel with a spec, the only difference is that this director put his demo reel on the internet for all to see. And complaining about the story of a short like this is not much different than complaining about the story in a piece of concept art. You're judging a sketch. Go watch the shorts of some of your favorite directors, when you were just starting out. Would you hire them? Would you give Kubrick 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY based on THE SEAFARERS?

Personally I don't see why anyone would get upset over a new business model for aspiring talent to get into the business with original properties. But that's just me, and I'll be riding the coat tails of this approach in a couple months if everything goes according to plan
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:40 AM   #48
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Default Re: The Raven... uh, ok.

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Originally Posted by prescribe22 View Post
Someone needs to tell the Coen Brothers, Pixar, and Paul Thomas Anderson that they need to stop making movies and give back all the money they've made over the years.

They used short films to help generate financing for feature films. Sinnycal and Jboffer do not approve of their shenanigans.

Using short films to raise financing is a far cry from making a nifty tech demo of some lame robots and telekinesis powers and then having studios fall over themselves to "expand it into a feature."

Expand what into a feature? It's a tech demo of some generic special effects.

This is something the guy should be showing to effects houses to get a job as a composite artist.

"Cool compositing, brah. Here's a bag of cash to turn your demo reel into a feature film."

I can't fathom a line of reasoning that makes rational sense out of that, so I'll just go back to the building analogy. You don't admire your neighbor's brick driveway and respond by commissioning the bricklayer to design your new house.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:23 AM   #49
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Default Thank Goodness It's Not Poe's "The Raven"!

For a while, I wondered if someone was criticizing the making of a feature-length film based upon Poe's poem.

How many posters, here, have checked out this filmmaker? This isn't some film student, with his buddies, racking up $5,000 in credit card debt, to film a short with someone's borrowed Red camera and a set of Zeiss lenses. He's a pro.

Quote:
"De Montreuil is currently Creative Director at newly launched NBC Universal channel Mun2. Since his involvement with the company began, the channel has had massive ratings growth. Prior to this, De Montreuil was Senior Creative Director at MTV Networks Latin America for many years, where he oversaw the overall promotional design and content of MTV channels throughout the Latin American region. Ricardo was selected as one of Advertising Age's 40 Under 40 of 2006 and one of the 10 Hispanic raising starts in Hollywood according to Hispanic magazine in its 2008 entertainment issue." ~ IMDb
I'm still laughing at: "It was produced with a total budget of $5,000...."

Shooting budget, I'd guess. Enough to pay for a two-day gig of the actor running about alleys in Los Angeles, but, certainly, not enough to pay for all of the post and CGI, (unless, maybe, he's got access to all of that for free at NBC Universal).

It's a teaser. He's got a treatment, that's being pitched. It's a viral campaign to stir up interest, (he's made many advertisements), with studios, (which get excited by graphic novels and expensive remakes of mediocre films).

I'm not jealous. I'm working on my own HD project, (which doesn't rely on CGI components to make it look interesting); and, I'm looking at $10,000 as a budget for the "feature," (not the "teaser"). Just waiting for a special motor to arrive for one of my 35mm motion picture cameras, to test my equipment set-up.

Story? Yep, I've got a whole bunch of 'em in my feature, but the primary narrative is based upon a classic poem. It's a bit more complex than a guy with telekinetic powers running away from homicidal robots working for the Los Angeles Police Force. And, not as nonsensical as DISTRICT 9, (with its alien craft stranded after running out of fuel and which cannot send any SOS to have some more fuel sent to rescue them)!

Write a story, or screenplay, (or a treatment), that can be shot on a small budget. Be original. And, perhaps, some producer will buy it, (if you can't film it yourself).

As for Poe's "The Raven," I've already written a stage play concerning its origins, in connection with the ghost of Mary Rogers, (the inspiration of his short story about "Marie Roget"). That'll be another film, but a short one.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:58 AM   #50
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Default Re: Thank Goodness It's Not Poe's "The Raven"!

Yeah I'll be honest, they are taking the mickey a little with the 5k budget claim. I mean a decked out RED One, set of Master Primes+ all the assorted gear that goes along with that, VFX software, pro color timing, pro sound, etc etc... These things don't come cheap.

Sure you can rent it, but these guys don't look like they just picked up a RED One for the weekend.

So it's a little misleading to paint it as a 5K production when the real cost is way north of that.

All the same, well done to them. It's not much of a story, but they made a splash with it regardless, and that's not without merit.
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