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Old 07-20-2019, 10:10 PM   #171
GucciGhostXXX
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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Originally Posted by finalact4 View Post
...right now Tracker is the #9 most popular script on the black list.
Wait... WHAT? How the frick do you not have an agent/manager?
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:12 AM   #172
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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Wait... WHAT? How the frick do you not have an agent/manager?
Lots of scripts do well on the Black List without any tangible results for the writers.

A high rating or ranking isn't a guarantee of anything.
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:12 AM   #173
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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Originally Posted by Friday View Post
So if you get a couple of 8's, do you just stand pat? Why risk anything lower than that?

I took the free evaluations because they came with free hosting. It's a package deal. I guess you could just keep your 8's and hope for some additional love from the industry folks, but you'll have to pay the $25 a month to host (and it still is 25 btw -- not sure where the $30 a mo. rumor got started).

If you DON'T take the free evals, you'll always wonder what they would have been.

But you're going to get some 5's, either from readers or the industry. So what. Only makes them look bad, not you.
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:32 AM   #174
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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Originally Posted by Friday View Post
Just curious if placing well in the big contests (not named Nicholl) would translate well into getting an 8 on the Blacklist.

When I knew I had something really good on my hands, I sent it everywhere specifically to see if there was any consistency between the BL and the contests and the professional readers.

The good news: Yes, there is. A great script SHOULD do well everywhere you send it (but if it doesn't -- it doesn't mean anything. Remember, it's still all just a crap shoot).

The bad news (for me) was, Crime Thrillers are deader than bromance comedies, so I'm back at square one.
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:14 AM   #175
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

I don't think I've ever said anything really negative about the Blacklist -- I'm all for free market economies and due diligence and all that good stuff, but

their TECH DEPT. sucks. They either need to fire everybody or maybe go buy a used algorithm from Netflix or something.

When I am (pretending I'm a producer) looking at a horror script with a 7.5 rating, and I click on one of the 'Similar Script' titles in the upper left hand corner, and I get a comedy with a 3 average, it causes me to lose faith in the credibility of your brand.

Likewise, the search function is not as useful as it should be (perhaps on purpose -- Like everything else on the site, it's transparently ambiguous).

When you search through the 3400 currently hosted scripts on the website, you can narrow the field by 'Most Rated' and 'Most Popular'.

My script is currently in the top 30 Most Rated, which SOUNDS great...

except that it's 10 spots lower than a script where the author has purchased 31 paid reviews, only to wind up with a combined average of 1.8 (not making that up... I would say it must be a prank/joke, but he's already spent over $2400).

What would be much more useful to everyone, would be the ability to narrow the search field by HIGHEST RATED scripts, which is obviously the most useful metric.

But to do that would take away from the allure of the monthly and quarterly top lists, which are not free to get on.

That fact that the BL refuses to let people search the highest rated scripts on the website is what leads to the frequent pay-to-play accusations.

I still like the site, but boy is it hard to defend sometimes.
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:48 AM   #176
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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Originally Posted by kintnerboy View Post
...10 spots lower than a script where the author has purchased 31 paid reviews, only to wind up with a combined average of 1.8 (not making that up... I would say it must be a prank/joke, but he's already spent over $2400)...
Corporations should have ethics too. Look at the opiod problem and how the manufacturers didn't seem to care about the consequences of their actions.

The consequences re not as serious in the screenwriting consulting/pay-for-service world, but maybe we could compare it to the payday-loan world, but merely care about the $$$.

It gets so bad that sometimes government can be called in to regulate things. If you're a liberal or Democrat, do you want conservatives or Republicans deciding the limits? Or the other way around?

So, before that happens, a little self-regulation or code of conduct is a wise thing.

Nicholl, for example, allows only 3 scripts max. to be submitted each year. Sure, part of this is that they don't want to overburden their readers, but money-per-submission is good money, and I'm sure they'd be happy to take it. But I'm sure it's also because they figure they don't want some poor amateur sucker (like me? 50 scripts?) sending everything, and going bankrupt in the process, in the hopes of something sticking. (There's the old story from Greg Beal that somebody once submitted 100 scripts. A hundred!)

So how does this relate to this BL thingee?

I don't know how much time your example ($2400) represents... months? Years? How long do these things stay active? And am I to infer that this was for a single script, 31 times?). But maybe if somebody's spending that kind of money, couldn't BL say "Just hold on a second..."

It's a bit like the payday loan folks who have voluntarily (or otherwise) begun to have limits on what they can take in, even if the borrower has a perfect payment record.

After all, the 'corporations' in our very own screenwriting world claim to know how it all works, and that if you've eg. requested coverage 10 times for the same script, in a six-month period, somebody should probably have a talk with the writer or, even, impose a cap. (Never mind that such situations can skew the results of those much vaunted algorithms and polls, as you mention)

It's a moral choice that corporations can make, even if our free-enterprise, capitalistic, entrepreneurial freedoms permit something else.
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Old 07-21-2019, 08:45 AM   #177
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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I don't know how much time your example ($2400) represents... months? Years? How long do these things stay active? And am I to infer that this was for a single script, 31 times?). But maybe if somebody's spending that kind of money, couldn't BL say "Just hold on a second..."

It's 1 script with 31 paid reviews. I know this because all 31 are posted. Reading them amounts to a master class in how to let someone down gently -- I am not naming the title or the author, obviously. My intention is not to embarrass. Easy to find though.

I've posted about this in a previous thread (when Franklin was still active) and had my mind completely changed in the process.

I used to believe that a company had a ethical responsibility (like a bartender) to not oversell people who were not benefiting from a service.

But there's too many slippery slopes and there's too many ways that an attempt to protect someone from themselves could turn into a discrimination lawsuit (even if you're discriminating against trust fund babies with more money than talent).

Caveat Emptor.
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:03 AM   #178
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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Originally Posted by kintnerboy View Post
...themselves could turn into a discrimination lawsuit (even if you're discriminating against trust fund babies with more money than talent).

Caveat Emptor.
Instead of payday loans, I should have used the example of casinos, where the lawless days of the old West are slowly being impacted by lawsuits from gambling addicts, and by government legislation.

Everybody seen Owning Mahowny? Good heavens, Philip Seymore Hoffman and John Hurt at their best. The way the Hoffman character was "encouraged" to keep playing the game became an issue, as much as his sorry journey to disaster was an issue.

The film shows how bad it can get, and the epilogue shows how it can become a bigger issue than just between buyer and seller, and how inevitably the company can be held at least partially to account.

All I'm talking about here, with BL, is maybe having a talk with the guy. Or under their 'News' heading announce a 'cap' on the number of submissions of the same script per month. Or maybe saying if you pass that threshold you have to have (pay for) a one-on-one consultation, instead of blowing your money on endless coverage reports. See? Always an opportunity for looking like a good guy, instead of just a money pit.

Maybe they did have that chat, or have a cap or something else in mind. Who knows. Me? I'd be embarrassed to be taking the guy's money for anything after 9 submissions over a period of a few months. And that's presuming the guy's continually polishing the work. If he's just submitting the same draft over and over, to try to get different results, then I have no sympathy for either side, but in any sort of civil intervention it's more likely the company that will lose in reputation, or award + legal fees, let alone loss of time and resources.

So why not just be a good corporate citizen before it goes that far.

And I mean more than merely having a "Code of Conduct" on your website. You have to do it.

Hey, I do "feel" for corps. I'm one, but incorporated as a sole operator so don't have any law-fare inclined employees to face, thankfully. Whether we're individuals or have a public or private Board to face, we're all just trying to eke out a living.

But we should always try to avoid believing in black and white solutions for every issue out there. Inevitably, those who believe in the all-white or all-black will take over the agenda, either one over the other or for the mere fun (it seems) of smashing each other into pieces, as we see in our politics today.

Last edited by catcon : 07-21-2019 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Somehow I posted, before I was finished! I can't have that! So here's the final version.
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:03 AM   #179
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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Originally Posted by LauriD View Post
Lots of scripts do well on the Black List without any tangible results for the writers.

A high rating or ranking isn't a guarantee of anything.
Right. Just say'n... thats a pretty miserable stat for the BL: Top 9 script on the entire site and no reps calling???
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:11 AM   #180
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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Originally Posted by kintnerboy View Post
I don't think I've ever said anything really negative about the Blacklist -- I'm all for free market economies and due diligence and all that good stuff, but

their TECH DEPT. sucks. They either need to fire everybody or maybe go buy a used algorithm from Netflix or something.

When I am (pretending I'm a producer) looking at a horror script with a 7.5 rating, and I click on one of the 'Similar Script' titles in the upper left hand corner, and I get a comedy with a 3 average, it causes me to lose faith in the credibility of your brand.

Likewise, the search function is not as useful as it should be (perhaps on purpose -- Like everything else on the site, it's transparently ambiguous).

When you search through the 3400 currently hosted scripts on the website, you can narrow the field by 'Most Rated' and 'Most Popular'.

My script is currently in the top 30 Most Rated, which SOUNDS great...

except that it's 10 spots lower than a script where the author has purchased 31 paid reviews, only to wind up with a combined average of 1.8 (not making that up... I would say it must be a prank/joke, but he's already spent over $2400).

What would be much more useful to everyone, would be the ability to narrow the search field by HIGHEST RATED scripts, which is obviously the most useful metric.

But to do that would take away from the allure of the monthly and quarterly top lists, which are not free to get on.

That fact that the BL refuses to let people search the highest rated scripts on the website is what leads to the frequent pay-to-play accusations.

I still like the site, but boy is it hard to defend sometimes.
That's nutz, 31 paid reads? Wtf?

It's absolutely pay-to-play... If I was Franklin I'd never admit that (do the math on what he'$ making) but that's exactly what it is. Good for him (I guess) for figuring out a new way to fleece wannabe writers.

...Yet, it's pretty gross IMO.
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