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Old 05-05-2019, 06:08 PM   #41
UpandComing
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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As a direct result of introductions made on the Black List, dozens of writers have found representation at major talent agencies and management companies, as well as sold or optioned their screenplays.
I'm highly skeptical of this statistic. Since the BL site's debut, I've maybe heard of a dozen people through the trades that have gotten repped/optioned. It's strange that the site can make such a bold claim without providing a list of some kind. Especially since it doesn't communicate directly with writers who do happen to get repped/optioned through the site.

This is a great example of customers just accepting a claim because a service says so, with the service not receiving any kind of accountability for that claim whatsoever.
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:19 PM   #42
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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I'm highly skeptical of this statistic. Since the BL site's debut...
Maybe the "algorithm" needs tweaking.

But I agree with you. Why the privacy rules? Script Pipeline (nee ScriptPimp!) is still promoting Evan Daugherty's pro success, nearly a decade after he won their contest.
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:55 PM   #43
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

I still have always contended that the writers who find success in contests would have found success without them... I'm sure there's 1% where they might not have kept pushing w/o the win and the introduction...

Again, never used black list, if it helps, great. But if these are the numbers they are prompting on their own website -- that means the best PR spin you can do -- well that's not very exciting to me cost vs reward.
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Old 05-06-2019, 02:07 AM   #44
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

Isn't Black List just a rolling contest with no deadline? It has the same drawbacks as any other contest in that only a tiny percentage benefits. It is difficult to say how much any contests contribute to a writer's success, but I've heard at least two successful managers on the Scripts and Scribes say that they use the Black List to find clients.

It's overpriced and a big gamble but trying to break into this business is a suckers bet no matter what method you use. I think people get more frustrated with the Black List because the time span between the payment and failure is much shorter than contests.
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Old 05-06-2019, 02:38 AM   #45
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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Isn't Black List just a rolling contest with no deadline? It has the same drawbacks as any other contest in that only a tiny percentage benefits. It is difficult to say how much any contests contribute to a writer's success, but I've heard at least two successful managers on the Scripts and Scribes say that they use the Black List to find clients.
I think there's a notable difference between results produced from the Black List and those produced from contests.

The top contests aren't afraid to publish their success stories. See:

Nicholl: https://www.facebook.com/notes/acade...3208928621452/ and https://www.oscars.org/nicholl/notable

Austin: https://austinfilmfestival.com/festi...ccess-stories/

PAGE: https://pageawards.com/success-stories/

The Black List, on the other hand, doesn't publish any list of success stories. Considering that it is a "rolling contest" with people getting promoted to pros every week via e-mail, you'd think that there'd be a) a much higher percentage of people getting signed than with contests and b) a desire on the part of the organization to collect information regarding such signings and publish it on its site, as evidence of its ROI.

I genuinely think it probably avoids publishing such information because the ratio of actual signings/options to people who submit scripts is probably drastically lower than the ratio for contests -- and it doesn't want to draw attention to that reality. But that's just my theory.
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Old 05-06-2019, 03:01 AM   #46
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

BTW, it's not just the lack of confirmed results for BL despite many more submissions than contests.

BL costs a lot more than contests -- $75 for a read plus (apparently now) $30 to host for one month = $105 -- much more than the late entry fee for every contest except TrackingB.

So basically, we're paying higher fees for a service with significantly less transparency regarding its track record (and likely significantly fewer positive outcomes for writers).

I think all the "opportunities" the BL has added in the last few years (fellowships, "Featured Script of the Week," etc.) have served to disguise the fact that its core service doesn't provide much value. Someone should really do a study on the ROI of this service and put it out there.
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Old 05-06-2019, 03:01 AM   #47
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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I think there's a notable difference between results produced from the Black List and those produced from contests.

The top contests aren't afraid to publish their success stories.
Yes. Maybe It's more comparable to the less successful contests.

I do wonder why it hasn't had more success in starting careers though. It seems to have enough followers in the industry.

Judging on premise alone, I've never been impressed by their featured lists, but considering they use industry readers, I would assume that's what producers want.
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Old 05-06-2019, 05:27 PM   #48
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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Ah, thank you 'search tool' in DDPro. In March 2018 there were several comments that contributed to my notions about Shia's script, in the 'My Blacklist Experience' thread. Here's one:

(The bold/underline is my emphasis, so that helps to answer my question about whether or not scripts are ID'd for the evaluations. Further:

Is this right? 22 evaluations? Why?
the way you rake in evaluations is each time you receive 8s you are given additional reviews at no charge. if the no charge reviews come back with 8s, guess what, you get more free reviews, and so on and so on.
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:51 PM   #49
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

My understanding is, you can get your script on The Black List for free by having it bounce around Hollywood the old-fashioned way and have producers and agents recommend it (which is way easier said than done), so it goes up the list for publication around town at the end of the year.

I don't think Franklin started this for money, because it would have been very difficult to start something like this "on purpose."

He could get plenty of writers to sign up, for free or for money, but how would he get important reps and producers and execs to take it seriously, so it would do writers any good? There are a million of these kinds of lists out there that no one looks at.

By asking for 10 good scripts, and then having that list get forwarded everywhere, and then someone asking, "when is next year's list coming out?" the whole thing went viral, before going viral was a thing. Important people thought it was an important list, and it became one.

Franklin added the money side of it so any writer could be on it, and get noticed if their script was good enough. The money was to cover the costs of readers and coverage and web site expenses, and possibly to make a profit. Maybe he did it to help writers, maybe he did it to make money, but you don't have to do it, and there have been some good results, a lot better than you can get in most other places. "Here's $500 and a great script, get my career started please." Sounds like a bargain, especially compared to $50,000 a year at USC Film School.

The big-time writers and reps who generally poo-poo contests as a way of breaking in, they pretty consistently like The Black List, Austin and Nicholl. Some people like some others, but those are the 3 I always see recommended.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: Franklin Leonard

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the way you rake in evaluations is each time you receive 8s you are given additional reviews at no charge. if the no charge reviews come back with 8s, guess what, you get more free reviews, and so on and so on.
I was aware of the award for an 8+, but I assume you get only one (or two, I think) free reviews (or maybe some deal on hosting) for each paid review with an 8.

But there must be some limit. Let's say you pay for one, get an 8, get a freebie, get an 8 or 9 on it, and it metastasizes on and on. Wouldn't there be situations where there are a hundred or more, for really good scripts?

Anyway, the post here on DDPro said '22 paid reviews', so I assumed that was the case and that there must be some way to determine this. Thus my question remains: What's the value of so many?

Last edited by catcon : 05-06-2019 at 09:59 PM.
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