Franklin Leonard

[UpandComing]

Originally Posted by finalact4

so you know, i find this post by you unnecessarily aggressive.

I apologize if you found my post aggressive. I assure you, that wasn't the intention. In fact, my use of "lol" near the beginning is partly an indication that I wasn't annoyed, just amused. Of course, it can be hard to construe one's tone through written statements online, and that's a risk we all run.

Originally Posted by finalact4

i'm not going to be chased off by someone whose disputing i have a right to my opinion. or am i going to allow someone to put words in my mouth.

You said that certain writers only complain because they didn't get an 8. I agreed with you on that point -- so I'm not sure why you followed it up by saying "I stand by what I did say." I never disputed your right to your opinion.

I will say that there is a bit of a discrepancy between what you said earlier and later. First this:

Originally Posted by finalact4

but that's not the general sentiment of most new writers. they're pissed off they didn't get an 8.

Then this:

Originally Posted by finalact4

i do stand by what i did say. and i'm speaking from what i see, from my personal experiences. there are certain writers that are pissed off they didn't receive high scores.

There is a bit of a gulf between "most new writers" and "certain writers."

In any case, you did indeed agree to my statement that "as a paying service, it would be nice to see some evidence of its tangible benefits on the website rather than just vague claims." So I'm happy to leave all well alone, because I have no argument with you there.

[finalact4]

Originally Posted by catcon

I was aware of the award for an 8+, but I assume you get only one (or two, I think) free reviews (or maybe some deal on hosting) for each paid review with an 8.

But there must be some limit. Let's say you pay for one, get an 8, get a freebie, get an 8 or 9 on it, and it metastasizes on and on. Wouldn't there be situations where there are a hundred or more, for really good scripts?

Anyway, the post here on DDPro said '22 paid reviews', so I assumed that was the case and that there must be some way to determine this. Thus my question remains: What's the value of so many?

sorry, catcon, i missed this last part. the value is that it keeps you on the top lists non-stop. so as long as you have two each quarter with high scores you will always remain the the top quarterly list and if you have 4 rolling every year you'll remain on the top list for the annual list. if you receive two new reviews that are high scores you can technically remain on the monthly top list every month. so you are always visible and your script gets sent out each Monday after you get an 8, if you do get an 8.

as far as i know there is no limit an actually i think they may have designed it that way, though i'm not certain.

i was shocked myself until i figured it out. some may very well pay for several reviews. i've considered it.

[finalact4]

Originally Posted by UpandComing

I apologize if you found my post aggressive. I assure you, that wasn't the intention. In fact, my use of "lol" near the beginning is partly an indication that I wasn't annoyed, just amused. Of course, it can be hard to construe one's tone through written statements online, and that's a risk we all run.

sorry, i have a 17 year-old daughter whose use of LOL is always sarcastic, my bad.

You said that certain writers only complain because they didn't get an 8. I agreed with you on that point -- so I'm not sure why you followed it up by saying "I stand by what I did say." I never disputed your right to your opinion.

we agree on many points. i followed up stating that my references were only to those complains and not ALL complaints.

I will say that there is a bit of a discrepancy between what you said earlier and later. First this:

[Quote:]
Originally Posted by finalact4 View Post
but that's not the general sentiment of most new writers. they're pissed off they didn't get an 8.

Then this:
[Quote:]
Originally Posted by finalact4 View Post
i do stand by what i did say. and i'm speaking from what i see, from my personal experiences. there are certain writers that are pissed off they didn't receive high scores.

There is a bit of a gulf between "most new writers" and "certain writers."

no, upandcoming, you do not get to take what i said out of context and twist it. this is what i was talking about.

this is what i posted first:*******************************
i see a lot of, well i got a 5 and it placed in the quarters at Nicholl. they complain that they didn't get an 8 because they thought they were going to get an 8. that's where a writer might be misguided in their own abilities. and instead of rewriting it, to improve it, they complain that they system is rigged.

if you get four 5s on the black list, guess what, maybe consider it needs a rewrite. when i received 8s and 9s i still rewrote it because i agreed with the review. but that's not the general sentiment of most new writers.

they're pissed off they didn't get an 8.
************************************************** ******
that was the context of the first post you quote. i am speaking specifically to certain new writers that receive low scores and expected high scores.
therefore, there is NO gulf. they are one in the same. and if you didn't get that initially, i'm clearing that up here and now.

if you're going to quote me, please keep it in context and not try to twist it to make your own point. it is both unfair to me and misrepresents what i said.

In any case, you did indeed agree to my statement that "as a paying service, it would be nice to see some evidence of its tangible benefits on the website rather than just vague claims." So I'm happy to leave all well alone, because I have no argument with you there.

you've made all the other arguments well enough. i do not feel the need to add to them.

as far as i'm concerned, we're good. no hard feelings here.

[barh]

My original question was 'why doesn't Franklin Leonard post here anymore?' If this thread doesn't get him back here, nothing will.

I see it would be helpful if the names were clearer.

The Annual Black List could just be "The Black List" and the Black List web site could be "The Black List Script Service" or something that could connect it to the brand name but also clearly distinguish it from the completely separate annual list. Like if they had the Nicholl Competition and the Nicholl Coverage Service or something like that.

I had suggested on another post that they group together scores, such as 4 to 6 and 7 to 9, so what would previously have been 7s could get more of a 'benefit of the doubt' effect, and more people might read them.

Someone said that would discourage people from looking at the best scripts but you'd still have a '10' category and the 8s and 9s would also be in the 7 to 9 group, so readers wouldn't want to miss them.

[finalact4]

Originally Posted by barh

My original question was 'why doesn't Franklin Leonard post here anymore?' If this thread doesn't get him back here, nothing will.

no, i'm sure he's too busy.

I see it would be helpful if the names were clearer.

The Annual Black List could just be "The Black List" and the Black List web site could be "The Black List Script Service" or something that could connect it to the brand name but also clearly distinguish it from the completely separate annual list. Like if they had the Nicholl Competition and the Nicholl Coverage Service or something like that.

no, i wouldn't be for that. there's a legitimacy that comes with using "The Black List." it actually helps a writer. even if the recipient is confused. i would bet that might be one of the reasons for using the brand for the website.

I had suggested on another post that they group together scores, such as 4 to 6 and 7 to 9, so what would previously have been 7s could get more of a 'benefit of the doubt' effect, and more people might read them.

absolutely totally disagree.

your score on the black list is already weighted and averaged to get on the top lists and it appears in on your script. but every review stands on it own merit.

as the writer, you select what is public and what is not.

it's not about giving a benefit to anyone. it's about trying to treat everyone equally. reviews stand on their own merit, just like it would with a reader at a studio.

Someone said that would discourage people from looking at the best scripts but you'd still have a '10' category and the 8s and 9s would also be in the 7 to 9 group, so readers wouldn't want to miss them.

no. that's a bad idea, imo. have you hosted a script on the site yet? have you had one evaluated? once you go through the process, it clears up a lot of confusion.

[UpandComing]

Originally Posted by finalact4

as far as i'm concerned, we're good. no hard feelings here.

Likewise.

[Bono]

I stand by everything I said. I win the contest!!!!

[ScreenRider]

Originally Posted by finalact4

i assume you did receive additional reviews because of the disparity between a 7 and a 3?

I got an automated email mentioning the disparity and offering me an additional review for the discounted price of $40. But since the 3 lowered my average so much, I was not interested in any more reviews.

[finalact4]

Originally Posted by ScreenRider

I got an automated email mentioning the disparity and offering me an additional review for the discounted price of $40. But since the 3 lowered my average so much, I was not interested in any more reviews.

hey ScreenRider:
push back harder. that is not acceptable-- a five point spread? tell them that it is a poor reflection on their website when they tout that they are working within industry standards and there is such a huge disparity. respectfully request that they offer you one free and one at half price.

is there anything you can discern from the 3 that you might be able to disqualify it for? for example, did they get a character's name wrong or a plot point wrong that might indicate that thy didn't actually read the script?

apologies if you mentioned it previously, but are those the only two reviews you received? i do remember that they used to give discounted rates on a two point spread, but a 5 point spread is huge.

if they push back with a, "no" tell them that you'll take the second review at a discount if they completely voice the 3 if you get a score 2 points above, which is a 5. that should help your average.

push back, you can't get anything if you don't stand up for yourself. if you want you can email me both the reviews and i can try to see if there's anything that stands out. up to you.

my email is in my profile.

good luck.
FA4

[finalact4]

Originally Posted by Bono

I stand by everything I said. I win the contest!!!!

the prize has already been claimed by the one true winner...

Finaact4, breaker of rules, first of her name, true ruler of the infinite realms of the fantastical, writer of much and supporter of all writers.

beat that, smarty pants.

FA4