How risky is this move?

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  • #46
    Re: How risky is this move?

    Originally posted by MrEarbrass View Post
    Maybe you should drop the condescending tone and allow for the possibility that there are pros on this site beyond the three people you know. One of whom made a number of interesting points earlier, which you completely blew off.

    The point beneath the "mundane" of this argument is that some managers think their role is to advise their clients and some think their role is to direct their clients. I have seen the latter do a lot of harm to numerous writers--aspiring or otherwise.
    I'm pretty sure I know 4 or 5, but that is besides the point. And I happily debate Hollywood with those guys on a regular basis, so if I blew a working writer off that I didn't know, ok........

    If you don't like being spoken at with a condescending tone, don't speak with one in the first place.

    The role of a manger is to work with the writer in a mutually beneficial manner. Yes, you help guide/advise them through the halls of Hollywood, and you do so with helping them grow their career for the long haul.

    The fact that you are sitting here actually arguing against writers coming up with ideas and sharing them with their reps on a regular basis while they try and find the next viable idea to write on spec is mind boggling to me.
    twitter.com/mbotti

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    • #47
      Re: How risky is this move?

      This is retarded. Layers and layers of it.

      The people who can't see the various layers of retarded going on here are half retarded.

      The people who see the various layers but engage are 1/4 retarded.

      Those of us who just happened to bounce in here on a fluke are just slow.

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      • #48
        Re: How risky is this move?

        Originally posted by MacG View Post
        1. I wasn't asking them to consider my entire back catalogue of material; only two projects. And they said no -- write something new. It's that type of dismissive attitude (especially when you won't even let me pitch the idea) that pisses me off as a writer. Just sayin'.

        2. The script-in-question hasn't been seen by anyone. I would NEVER be so brazen or stupid as to pull something like that. I know that would only end in disaster.

        3. Please see #1.

        4. I don't like being sneaky or duplicitous but, as Todd Karate said, if they're happy and I'm happy, why risk fvcking that up?
        I missed this from earlier. Sorry.

        1 and 2. If they have not read it, and it's never been read by the town then I don't see there being a problem. (You would be amazing at how many projects are sent out on the tracking boards each year by some rep who just signed a client, only to have it turn out it was an old spec with a new name). Sad, but true. So while people should never be dismissive, I can understand them wanting new material to send out. Really it just comes down to having trust and communication.

        4. I guess that just depends. If you came to me and said "I have this great spy thriller idea. I wrote a script years ago with this great character that I think works really well today. The script itself is old, but the character himself is cool and bad ass. Here is the idea for the new movie.". I wouldn't have any sort of problem with that. I guess if you are already past that stage though, you might as well keep quiet if you don't feel comfortable talking to them about it.
        twitter.com/mbotti

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        • #49
          Re: How risky is this move?

          Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
          This is retarded. Layers and layers of it.

          The people who can't see the various layers of retarded going on here are half retarded.

          The people who see the various layers but engage are 1/4 retarded.

          Those of us who just happened to bounce in here on a fluke are just slow.
          I'm going to go eat some food, because if anything, I'm one hell of a cook.
          twitter.com/mbotti

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          • #50
            Re: How risky is this move?

            Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
            Those of us who just happened to bounce in here on a fluke are just slow.
            I didn't know that a Battle Dolphin could bounce in on a fluke. Must be one heckuva big honkin' fluke. (Though still, that might explain the slow response.)

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            • #51
              Re: How risky is this move?

              I don't think anyone is against the idea of bringing various ideas to reps, or discussing ideas with reps in order to decide which ones will work as specs (or whatever). I think we all understand that kind of back and forth is a given.

              Where I have concerns is bringing in a lot of undeveloped ideas to reps simply for the sake of bringing something in to them to look at. I would rather take a bit more time and bring them ideas that I truly believed were good and had potential-- stuff I had thought about & was excited about writing.

              I guess this is a situation where you would make your preference in doing things known to your reps and go from there.

              Thanks.

              "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

              ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

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              • #52
                Re: How risky is this move?

                Originally posted by michaelb View Post
                3. Maybe naive for you. Sorry, but I work in the business at a high level. I represent great creative writers and directors. I know many writers that write 5 ideas down per day, let alone 10 per week. If you can't think of 10 ideas (good or bad) per week, you're probably not working in the same level of Hollywood that I am. And even if you are "diving into the script", almost all writers are able to multi-task. To survive in Hollywood, you have to.
                All I'm saying is that I've never had a discussion with a working writer - and I am one, and know a lot of 'em - about a long period of looking for an idea to please an agent or manager that was discussed with any sort of "that's a process I think was worthwhile and would be happy to go through again."

                Now, maybe you represent all the people who had a great time going through that process, and somehow my social circle doesn't overlap with any of them. But you're talking about people in the business at a high level, and I'm talking about working writers repped at CAA, Gersh, and WME ... so, yeah, I think we're talking about rep working at a "high level" and writers doing the same.

                You saying "quirky little movie" wasn't a figure of speech, by the way, it was being condescending and actually obscuring the real issue by attacking a straw-man version of my position.

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                • #53
                  Re: How risky is this move?

                  Originally posted by michaelb View Post
                  (I'm working on Hollywood, most here are not).
                  Most - not all.

                  Please be careful about your assumptions.

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                  • #54
                    Re: How risky is this move?

                    Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
                    All I'm saying is that I've never had a discussion with a working writer - and I am one, and know a lot of 'em - about a long period of looking for an idea to please an agent or manager that was discussed with any sort of "that's a process I think was worthwhile and would be happy to go through again."

                    Now, maybe you represent all the people who had a great time going through that process, and somehow my social circle doesn't overlap with any of them. But you're talking about people in the business at a high level, and I'm talking about working writers repped at CAA, Gersh, and WME ... so, yeah, I think we're talking about rep working at a "high level" and writers doing the same.

                    You saying "quirky little movie" wasn't a figure of speech, by the way, it was being condescending and actually obscuring the real issue by attacking a straw-man version of my position.
                    I've never have had it go for a long period of time. And I've always found it to be a very smooth, organic, beneficial process for the writer.

                    Like I said, everyone is different, and everyone has different experiences, I can only speak from mine. There are also a lot of working writers at those agencies who go off and write ideas without vetting them, that then complain when their reps can't do anything with the idea. Which goes back to my first point, writers + reps = same team. You should all be working together towards the same goal.

                    Would it have been less condescending if I said "your own project"? Like I said, it was a figure of speech. If you go off and write something and your reps don't like it, then what?
                    twitter.com/mbotti

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                    • #55
                      Re: How risky is this move?

                      Originally posted by Ronaldinho View Post
                      Most - not all.

                      Please be careful about your assumptions.
                      That is exactly why I said "most" and not "all".
                      twitter.com/mbotti

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                      • #56
                        Re: How risky is this move?

                        Originally posted by michaelb View Post
                        The fact that you are sitting here actually arguing against writers coming up with ideas and sharing them with their reps on a regular basis while they try and find the next viable idea to write on spec is mind boggling to me.
                        I obviously wasn't saying this; these discussions are more interesting if you have the intellectual honesty not to argue against strawmen.

                        A writer doesn't need 520 trite ideas a year--he needs two or three good ones that he can execute. How he gets those good ideas depends on his process... maybe he sends his manager an avalanche of stuff or maybe he takes one little kernal of a story and spends a month developing it on his own. There's no one route.

                        For that reason I think that any manager who demands ten ideas a week from every client is--for lack of a better word--a hack. And any writer who lets his manager pick his next project from a list like that is doing himself a disservice. Your manager may know the other projects in the market better than you, he may know what's hot, but you damn well better know which idea is going to make the most unique and interesting story that showcases your skills. That's why you're the writer.

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                        • #57
                          Re: How risky is this move?

                          I believe Lowell generally runs his ideas by his reps (particularly his managers). You guys can say you know high level writers but very few writers on Lowell's level still spec. He does.

                          Of course you run your ideas by your manager. If you don't, you may write somethign they can't support.

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                          • #58
                            Re: How risky is this move?

                            Originally posted by MrEarbrass View Post
                            I obviously wasn't saying this; these discussions are more interesting if you have the intellectual honesty not to argue against strawmen.

                            A writer doesn't need 520 trite ideas a year--he needs two or three good ones that he can execute. How he gets those good ideas depends on his process... maybe he sends his manager an avalanche of stuff or maybe he takes one little kernal of a story and spends a month developing it on his own. There's no one route.

                            For that reason I think that any manager who demands ten ideas a week from every client is--for lack of a better word--a hack. And any writer who lets his manager pick his next project from a list like that is doing himself a disservice. Your manager may know the other projects in the market better than you, he may know what's hot, but you damn well better know which idea is going to make the most unique and interesting story that showcases your skills. That's why you're the writer.
                            I'm going to quote myself since you clearly missed it....

                            Originally posted by michaelb View Post
                            Successful writers don't need help coming up with ideas the same way newly established ones do. And again, 10 is an arbitrary number. The point being, which was the whole point of this thread, is you should run your ideas by your reps. And while you are in that "what to write for Hollywood" stage, you should be sending in X amount per week.
                            Hmm....hack. Ok. If you say so.

                            You clearly have not read my other posts talking about the mutual partnership working relationship between a writer and his reps, so I'm really not going to argue this with you anymore.
                            twitter.com/mbotti

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                            • #59
                              Re: How risky is this move?

                              Originally posted by BattleDolphinZero View Post
                              I believe Lowell generally runs his ideas by his reps (particularly his managers). You guys can say you know high level writers but very few writers on Lowell's level still spec. He does.

                              Of course you run your ideas by your manager. If you don't, you may write somethign they can't support.
                              And as you know, he just sold one of those specs....





                              I should have stopped engaging an hour ago...
                              twitter.com/mbotti

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                              • #60
                                Re: How risky is this move?

                                Originally posted by michaelb View Post
                                Hmm....hack. Ok. If you say so.

                                You clearly have not read my other posts talking about the mutual partnership working relationship between a writer and his reps, so I'm really not going to argue this with you anymore.
                                I don't understand what platitudinous posts about the relationship between managers and their clients have to do with this discussion. If I didn't value what a manager can bring to the table, I wouldn't have one.

                                On point... I trust my manager and agents' taste and run all of my ideas by them. But they would never, ever ask me to do what the OP described--because they trust my taste and because they understand their role. Perhaps that comes with experience.

                                Finally, one definition of a hack is applying a rule regardless of circumstance. So yeah, I stand by the opinion that if you are a manager who demands a certain number of ideas per week from all of your clients, you could probably put some more thought into the complexities of your job. That comment wasn't directed at you, by the way. I don't know you.

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