On-the-Nose Dialogue

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

    Originally posted by stvnlra View Post
    My dialogue tends to be flat, lame, uninteresting, doesn't "sound right", etc etc... Just not my forte.

    I suspect I have trouble w/ this b/c I'm not a verbal person. I don't talk a lot. I'm shy & tend to talk only when it's absolutely necessary. So maybe this has something to do with why I have trouble coming up with clever things for my char's to say.
    Actually, you're ahead of the game... just listen to how other people talk. I've picked up some great lines (or the rough form) from overheard conversation.
    "Forget it, Jake. It's Hollywood."

    My YouTube channel.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

      It's a tight rope to make dialogue exciting while still maintaining the essence of the scene. A woman friend in the biz explains it: "The shortest distance between two points will always be a straight line whether you're driving, sprinting or jogging. Always take that path. Know what you want to say and write what's absolutely necessary, no matter how bland or how obvious. Carve it out and smooth it out later in the rewrites. It's a much more interesting effect to remove dialogue for maximum impact than to add it for the same reason".
      "I ask every producer I meet if they need TV specs they say yeah. They all want a 40 inch display that's 1080p and 120Hz. So, I quit my job at the West Hollywood Best Buy."
      - Screenwriting Friend

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

        Originally posted by La Femme Joyeuse View Post
        You know, um, in my experience action lines are indeed skimmed.

        Don't forget, readers have to read fast and they have to synopsize. Action lines - particularly a dense block, are often skimmed over in favor of dialogue.

        Now: when your script gets to a serious level of consideration, of course more attention is paid to the details. That's a different game. But when you're trying to get a "consider" versus a "pass" it's true that action lines are speed read. So to speak.

        UNLESS they rock - i.e., they are pithy, exciting, colorful, expertly and engagingly written.
        La Femme, I'm confused . . . as usual.

        Bill says, "The easiest way to get rid of OTN dialogue? Don't use dialogue to tell the story. Watch Buster Keaton silent movies."

        That implies the script should be almost all action, little or no dialogue.
        So if, as you say, the first level Readers skim the script, pass over action, what's left to read?

        Could you expand on this issue? I feel I'm missing something.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

          La Femme, I'm confused . . . as usual.

          Bill says, "The easiest way to get rid of OTN dialogue? Don't use dialogue to tell the story. Watch Buster Keaton silent movies."

          That implies the script should be almost all action, little or no dialogue.
          So if, as you say, the first level Readers skim the script, pass over action, what's left to read?

          Could you expand on this issue? I feel I'm missing something.
          We're also supposed to show and not tell and not use OTN dialogue. But readers favor dialogue over action to get an idea of the script? It make no sense. I'm sure it happens but I doubt it is the norm.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

            Pop along to Unk's blog and read what he has to say about screenwriting mistakes here:-

            On-The-Nose-Dialogue is mentioned in Part 3, you have to slide down the page to find his descriptions and examples of..

            http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/c...ting-mistakes/

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

              Originally posted by cool running
              Thanks Kevan, some useful stuff there ....

              110 pages ?
              Thinks it's because the page count is between 100 and 120. Unk seems to consider this a good page count.

              There are arguments for and against.

              Most action films run 90 mins or maybe up to 100. Some thrillers and comedies too. That's probably a rule-of-thumb.. 100-110-120 for a drama, any more and you run the risk of not getting your script read.

              These are all guesstimates.. Guess Unk's using that as an example..

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

                La Femme is a pro Reader & can speak w/ authority on this.

                But my impression of the dichotomy is this:

                From a writer's POV... or a "good script " POV... you want the action to carry the story in most instances. This is where Martell was coming from.

                I think La Femme was speaking of the reality of what people in the industry practice on a day-to-day basis.

                Good or bad, people in the industry read dialogue & the quality of the dialogue goes a long way in determining, for them, the quality of the script.

                IMO, people in the industry are overly impressed with flashy dialogue (& writers who can write it) and assign it greater importance than it warrants.

                Flashy dialogue blinds them to flaws in the story. B/c of this, writers who write flashy, entertaining dialogue have something of an advantage.... but that's just my opinion.

                "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

                ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

                  Originally posted by jonpiper View Post
                  That implies the script should be almost all action, little or no dialogue.
                  No - just that the story should be told through the actions of the characters so that the dialogue can be free to be clever and interesting, instead of burdened with carrying the story.

                  My answer to readers & execs who skip the action? Take 'em out back and shoot them. Seriously. In a visual medium, they are not doing their job. Of course, in the real world we have to deal with these folks... so the best thing to do is write great dialogue and great action and make the action so exciting to read and important that they can not skip it.

                  When I read a script for rewrite assignment, I skim the dialogue and read the actions, because that's where the story is. The dialogue is the most changed element - not that you should write crappy dialogue, but that when the film is made, actors will change it. But when you have a scene where a character must make a big decision and *do one thing* or *do another* - that's the character and the story and removing it or doing something else screws up the whole film.

                  You need great dialogue. But if the dialogiue is telling the story, it tends to be OTN. It can't be subtle - then the reader doesn't get the story. It's can't have characters who lie or avoid the truth or say one thing and do another (to show character) because readers will believe the lie - they have no other choice if the dialogue tells the story.

                  Actions speak louder than words.

                  - Bill

                  PS: Two ways to improve your action sentences: 1) No sentence is allowed that is not describing an *action* - things have to be moving, no "still lifes". 2) If the sentence doesn't move he story forward, cut it.
                  Last edited by wcmartell; 10-19-2007, 11:11 AM.
                  Free Script Tips:
                  http://www.scriptsecrets.net

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

                    I guess, then, that my example in post 3 could actually be an example of a viable scene, provided that CLAUDIA (30) steps through the office door at the end and says "If you guys don't start taking this training seriously, NOBODY's getting lunch. Now do it over."

                    That would be the only piece of dialogue in the scene that actually advanced the story.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

                      Originally posted by AaronB View Post
                      I guess, then, that my example in post 3 could actually be an example of a viable scene, provided that CLAUDIA (30) steps through the office door at the end and says "If you guys don't start taking this training seriously, NOBODY's getting lunch. Now do it over."

                      That would be the only piece of dialogue in the scene that actually advanced the story.
                      Exactly...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

                        sorry guys - I was too busy skimming scripts to respond to this.

                        I jest. Too busy READING scripts. Ideally, a script has action lines and dialogue that are equally entertaining and compelling. Most scripts are poorly written, that's a given. In a poorly written script, it is merciful to skim over action lines. I am not saying it's okay, I'm saying it happens so get used to it.

                        What should you strive for? To write action lines that are so pithy and compelling that the reader doesn't skim over one word on one page. And, as Bill said, so that the narrative is moved forward by both action and dialogue.

                        One little trick I learned early on is to cut out the first and last paragraphs of action lines on your page and then see how it reads. 9 times out of 10 that seemingly arbitrary cut makes the page read better.

                        Bottom line, as I am wont to say, is that the real estate on a script page is the most expensive real estate on the planet. So you can't afford one word that isn't doing it's job - moving the story forward while revealing your character more deeply and - job #1 - effing entertaining the reader.
                        Last edited by La Femme Joyeuse; 10-19-2007, 12:25 PM. Reason: delete redundant word so that IHAVEBIGLIPS can stop laughing :)

                        Julie Gray



                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

                          Originally posted by La Femme Joyeuse View Post
                          sorry guys - I was too busy skimming scripts to respond to this.

                          I jest. Too busy READING scripts. Ideally, a script has action lines and dialogue that are equally entertaining and compelling. Most scripts are poorly written, that's a given. In a poorly written script, it is merciful to skim over action lines. I am not saying it's okay, I'm saying it happens so get used to it.

                          What should you strive for? To write action lines that are so pithy, compelling and compelling that the reader doesn't skim over one word on one page. And, as Bill said, so that the narrative is moved forward by both action and dialogue.

                          One little trick I learned early on is to cut out the first and last paragraphs of action lines on your page and then see how it reads. 9 times out of 10 that seemingly arbitrary cut makes the page read better.

                          Bottom line, as I am wont to say, is that the real estate on a script page is the most expensive real estate on the planet. So you can't afford one word that isn't doing it's job - moving the story forward while revealing your character more deeply and - job #1 - effing entertaining the reader.
                          Man... our actions lines have to be pithy, compelling, AND compelling?

                          I'm ****ed.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

                            Ha. You get a charlie horse

                            Julie Gray



                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

                              I've also been told execs read down the middle. And I've gotten some notes that confirm it's true.

                              I had a script where the couples are sent to a military-sytle boot camp to work on their marraiges.

                              They go through this orientation process where they're stripped of their cells, laptops, Blackberry's, jewelry, their luggage is taken away and at the end handed fatigues to wear with their last names printed on the pockets.

                              At each juncture there's dialogue with the characters complaining about it all and arguing with each other.

                              I put this in the action lines, each no longer than one line separated by dialogue.

                              I get a studio exec note back on the script:

                              "Shouldn't they be wearing fatigues?"

                              It was a big studio too.

                              So, in the rewrite I added dialogue where one female character said something snarky about the fatigues.

                              Exec says -- "Oh good, I think that works now."

                              Forgot to add -- they ultimately passed saying no one wants to see a comedy about couples with marital problems.

                              I guess Dr. Phil is low in the ratings.

                              This is the reality we deal with -- polish your dialogue.
                              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: On-the-Nose Dialogue

                                Originally posted by ihavebiglips View Post
                                Man... our actions lines have to be pithy, compelling, AND compelling?
                                Yes - it must be twice as compelling as anyone else's script.

                                - Bill
                                Free Script Tips:
                                http://www.scriptsecrets.net

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X