The Black List from a user perspective

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  • The Black List from a user perspective

    There are many articles about the new Black List script hosting service out there, but none from a user perspective (as a screenwriter member, not an industry professional member). So I wrote one.

    The Black List - A User Perspective (five parts)

    Please take it in the spirit it was written: to ultimately improve the service for screenwriters.
    All the best,
    Lee
    __________________________________
    I'm not just a screenwriter...
    I also write and illustrate picture books!

  • #2
    Re: The Black List from a user perspective

    Amazing walk-through! Perfect timing too. I'm joining this Monday!

    ... and will likely be un-joining the second following Monday after my paid review comes back a 3/10 with a reader comment that simply says "meh."
    I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Black List from a user perspective

      Originally posted by LFGabel View Post
      There are many articles about the new Black List script hosting service out there, but none from a user perspective (as a screenwriter member, not an industry professional member). So I wrote one.

      The Black List - A User Perspective (five parts)

      Please take it in the spirit it was written: to ultimately improve the service for screenwriters.
      Thank you, both for the thorough critique of the site and the ongoing correspondence alerting us to issues you've discovered. Trust that we will be reading it closely and adjusting the site where it feels right. You've got some really good ideas here.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Black List from a user perspective

        Nice article.

        "I’d like to see script detail impressions limited to only industry professional members. They are the only impressions that matter."

        I agree with this 100%. When your impressions drop drastically once it's off the Recent Activity radar, it's probably a sign that other writers like me are browsing over the new scripts -- and not industry pros. It would be nice to know for sure that your impressions are from the industry pros and not other screenwriters.

        Overall, I think the new Black List is a fantastic avenue at getting your script in the right hands -- if you have a great script. It already feels so much more effective than query letters and more beneficial than contests. I, like you, thought my first professional reviewer handled my script with great care and clearly showed he/she took the time to immerse themselves into the story from beginning to end. The feedback was on point and showed the reviewer had passion for my script's genre. I allowed for the review to be visible, but I think I'll now pull it down until my second review gets finished so there isn't any chance of the second pro reader to look at those notes and maybe give less of an effort than necessary.
        Last edited by Jeremynt; 11-28-2012, 10:25 PM. Reason: spelling

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Black List from a user perspective

          Originally posted by LFGabel View Post
          There are many articles about the new Black List script hosting service out there, but none from a user perspective (as a screenwriter member, not an industry professional member). So I wrote one.

          The Black List - A User Perspective (five parts)

          Please take it in the spirit it was written: to ultimately improve the service for screenwriters.
          First, great insights. Second, kudos for doing it - lots of value there.

          Third, as someone who's written reviews of that sort that for a living, I gotta say you did a great job. Clear, user-friendly, nicely-done small details (without being "nitpicky").

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Black List from a user perspective

            Lee, thank you very much for your fantastic analysis of the Black List site. I second all your wish list items; great points all. And I too have experienced the problem of updating my logline and other information without having my script appear on the Recently Updated list.

            I have a few other items I'd like to add to the discussion, in the interest of helping to make the Black List site as great as possible.

            First, I think it's a problem that if your script doesn't appear in a Top list, or in the Recently Updated list, there's basically no way it can be found at all (unless one knows about it already and searches on the title). This seems counterintuitive on a site where one is, in fact, paying to be hosted.

            I suggest an "All Scripts- category, which can then be filtered by genre, rating, and so on. Likewise, it should be possible to sort the resulting list by rating, most recently uploaded, most recently updated, alphabetical, and combinations thereof. This would enable users to view ANY script on the site, while still enabling them to filter and sort to their liking.

            Secondly, I think Lee's idea to limit read purchases to three is a great one. This makes it clear the Black List is not trying to take advantage of anyone, and also will help keep readers from being overly backlogged.

            However, the problem with not allowing writers to ever delete their ratings discourages writers from doing page one rewrites and posting the new versions on the Black List, because the old ratings are going to pull down the new ratings average (presuming the writer has succeeded in significantly improving the script). For this reason, I propose the Black List allow writers to delete their ratings after a certain amount of time, say, 3 months. The caveat could be that they don't get to pick and choose: delete all the ratings, or none. Deleting all ratings shows that the writer is ready to have his/her work reevaluated, hopefully after having done a significant rewrite.

            Look at it this way: right now, a writer could theoretically achieve the same thing by removing a script from the site, and then uploading a "new- script with a different title, which is actually the same script, and getting all new ratings on it. Is this possible, or do your readers check for this kind of thing, Franklin?

            But wouldn't it be better if instead, the Black List actually encouraged writers to revise their work by having support for this built into the system? To reiterate, the idea is: Writers are limited to no more than 3 paid ratings within a 3 month period. If after the 3 months they upload a new version of the script, they may delete all previous paid ratings and purchase up to 3 more for the next 3 month period.

            Finally, a couple of small points:

            - On the main "My Scripts- page, it shows the average of all the writer's scripts. Do industry members see this number? Writers need to know, because if they do see it, it's an incentive for writers to remove their lower rated scripts from the site. But frankly, I'm not sure what use the number is at all, and I suggest dumping it, or making it clear that only the writer sees it (if such is the case), and it's just for his/her own use.

            - Does the "Read online- feature count as a Download? (NOTE: mine still is not working.)

            Okay, thanks again!

            My website:www.marjorykaptanoglu.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Black List from a user perspective

              With reads taking 2-3 weeks, that seriously cuts into hosting time.

              I know it was suggested having the option of waiting until you receive the first review to start the hosting clock. I hope this option is seriously considered, or that more readers are hired to cut down the wait time.
              "Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." -[/SIZE] James R. Cook

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                Having gone through the whole BL sign up process and experienced its many glitches and crudely designed interface firsthand, plus having read through other people's accounts of not just technical difficulties but having to pay fees for cursory reads, long wait times, etc. I have to say I agree with those who have serious questions about this service. I get that start-ups take time to work out the kinks but as someone in the 'aspiring screenwriter' category who's expected to produce pages that 'glow in the dark' before I dare burden even junior reps with a query, it's a little hard to accept that I'm supposed to be patient with a rich industry insider while he learns as he goes on my dime. If the Blacklist 3.0 was a screenplay I feel like a michaelb type would be going 'What else you got?'

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                • #9
                  Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                  Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
                  Thank you, both for the thorough critique of the site and the ongoing correspondence alerting us to issues you've discovered. Trust that we will be reading it closely and adjusting the site where it feels right. You've got some really good ideas here.
                  You're welcome. As with all notes, you take what's useful and toss away the rest.

                  Thanks for being so receptive to feedback.
                  All the best,
                  Lee
                  __________________________________
                  I'm not just a screenwriter...
                  I also write and illustrate picture books!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                    Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
                    Amazing walk-through! Perfect timing too. I'm joining this Monday!

                    ... and will likely be un-joining the second following Monday after my paid review comes back a 3/10 with a reader comment that simply says "meh."
                    That second review could get an 8/10 or higher and your script would be flagged. However, if I understand them correctly, the Month One statistics suggest that this scenario is unlikely.

                    For a future script, if I received a 6 or less on my first paid review, I would not be ordering a second paid review because the statistics and the math would not be in my favor.
                    All the best,
                    Lee
                    __________________________________
                    I'm not just a screenwriter...
                    I also write and illustrate picture books!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                      Originally posted by LFGabel View Post
                      That second review could get an 8/10 or higher and your script would be flagged. However, if I understand them correctly, the Month One statistics suggest that this scenario is unlikely.

                      For a future script, if I received a 6 or less on my first paid review, I would not be ordering a second paid review because the statistics and the math would not be in my favor.
                      I've noticed quite a few scripts with an 8 score, but the rating is hidden and there's more than one paid review.

                      Clearly, the script got a rather low score with the first review, and they decided to roll the dice again and got an 8!

                      Or the writer ordered 2 reviews to start with and got one low and one high score - an 8! So they decide to hide the low rating and the low score and just show the 8 review.
                      "Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." -[/SIZE] James R. Cook

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                        Originally posted by LFGabel View Post
                        That second review could get an 8/10 or higher and your script would be flagged. However, if I understand them correctly, the Month One statistics suggest that this scenario is unlikely.
                        Originally posted by JoJo View Post
                        I've noticed quite a few scripts with an 8 score, but the rating is hidden and there's more than one paid review.

                        Clearly, the script got a rather low score with the first review, and they decided to roll the dice again and got an 8!

                        Or the writer ordered 2 reviews to start with and got one low and one high score - an 8! So they decide to hide the low rating and the low score and just show the 8 review.
                        CSI: Black List

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                          I think these are great suggestions. One option for reporting impressions on a script might be to report total impressions and pro impressions separately. I think that might help writers better analyze & address why their scripts might be getting lots of views but few downloads while still providing a gauge of general overall interest.
                          Patrick Sweeney

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                            Another coupla cents to Franklin: "My Scripts" needs a sanity check for 1-script users. Right now there are 3 screens for a single script: the main one (graph, small title on the right), the second one (same graph, larger title on left, reviews, controls), and the public page (logline, attachments, etc).

                            Confusingly, the public page still has the old Edit Logline box, while the second page has Edit Data containing the logline. Just to read one's logline takes 3 clicks, and then a Back to edit it (as there is no link from the third (public) page to the second one).

                            I'd prefer all 3 pages combined into one, for the single script user, and the second page and public page combined for the multiple script user, with the redundancies eliminated (natch).
                            Last edited by Armak; 11-30-2012, 02:20 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Black List from a user perspective

                              Originally posted by Margie Kaptanoglu View Post
                              Look at it this way: right now, a writer could theoretically achieve the same thing by removing a script from the site, and then uploading a "new- script with a different title, which is actually the same script, and getting all new ratings on it. Is this possible, or do your readers check for this kind of thing, Franklin?
                              When you delete a script entirely, you can then upload a new version using the same title and you'll start from scratch ratings-wise. This is what Franklin has recommended for those who have done significant rewriting and want to try for higher scores.

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