Bob Orci Yells at Star Trek Fans

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  • #16
    Re: Bob Orci Yells at Star Trek Fans

    Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
    Right. Because if anyone else wrote Transformers or Star Trek directed by JJ Abrams, they would have bombed.
    Fanboy on aisle nine. Fanboy on aisle nine.



    Orci did nothing wrong. Fans were unreasonable and expected the film to be tailored to them (even though they themselves are a bunch of individuals with differing wants As for being a terrible writer: he made it in Hollywood by knowing the secret handshake, huh?
    M.A.G.A.

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    • #17
      Re: Bob Orci Yells at Star Trek Fans

      Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post
      Fanboy on aisle nine. Fanboy on aisle nine.



      Orci did nothing wrong. Fans were unreasonable and expected the film to be tailored to them (even though they themselves are a bunch of individuals with differing wants As for being a terrible writer: he made it in Hollywood by knowing the secret handshake, huh?

      I am a fanboy of well crafted, intelligently thought out films. Star Trek Into Darkness is about as opposed to that as you can get.

      Orci went onto a fan site that made some valid critiques of the movie and started telling people that "I'm a Hollywood screenwriter, so you just don't get what I was trying to do." There are a bunch of threads on how "you just don't get it" is the writer's fault, not the reader.

      He justified that his movie must be good because it made a lot of money. Let's see him write something not based on a franchise with a built in audience or directed by JJ Abrams. If Star Trek Into Darkness was an original concept, that script would have been thrown in the trash.

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      • #18
        Re: Bob Orci Yells at Star Trek Fans

        Claiming that the last two were the worst of the franchise, well, did they see any of the Next Generation films, because they were ****ing horrible.

        Beyond that, Orci sounds like a dipshit. Engaging with fans over your movie is infantile. The Truther stuff is douchey icing on the cake.

        Originally posted by emily blake View Post
        I think he's right in spirit, but handled it in the wrong way. I liked Into Darkness, despite a few flaws. I found it quite enjoyable. The movie made money. He continues to have a career. These people have not destroyed his life.

        When you work on a project in a property this beloved, people are going to hate you. It's a given. You will never, ever, ever be able to please them all, and once they start criticizing, they swell in number and volume. That's certainly not going to change if you yell at them.

        At the same time, it's easy to say that you should just be quiet and take your lumps when people are saying such hateful things about your hard work. It does affect you - I don't care how much you say it doesn't. Nobody likes to hear people you used to consider like-minded souls now talking about what a horrible hack you are. So I understand his urge to shout back.

        But it's not going to accomplish anything positive. It's only going to make him look bad, and not change anyone's mind.

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        • #19
          Re: Bob Orci Yells at Star Trek Fans

          Originally posted by carcar View Post
          This is what this conversation reminds me of:

          http://vimeo.com/44941848


          (btw, much younger me at 1:46)
          lol...what a classic!

          Oh btw as well, carcar...that's awesome. I remember watching that skit live. I hope it was a great experience.
          The best way out is always through. - Robert Frost

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          • #20
            Re: Bob Orci Yells at Star Trek Fans

            Originally posted by zenplato View Post
            lol...what a classic!

            Oh btw as well, carcar...that's awesome. I remember watching that skit live. I hope it was a great experience.
            Lots of fun. Bob Odenkirk and Judd Apatow wrote it, although sadly that had no impact on me at the time. (And really, I didn't exactly know that, or remember, anyway, until I ran across the transcript when I was looking for it online a couple days ago.) Just thought I would inject a little humor. Wasn't meant to derail.

            As far as Orci goes, I get him having the urge to defend. It's happened here a few times when a pro has had their work dissed. It's foolish to engage, but human. I have not yet seen the offending piece, so I can't comment on that. But I think Star Trek will outlive any damage he might have done. After all, Batman has been resurrected from the dead many time.

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            • #21
              Re: Bob Orci Yells at Star Trek Fans

              Originally posted by Staircaseghost View Post
              So you're saying he's basically like the guy who invented the Robo-Signer for Bank of America so they could foreclose on families' houses more efficiently?

              I mean, who are we to judge?
              Yes, I'm saying a writer who penned a crappy movie is the same as a bank forcing someone out of their house. You saw right through me.

              Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
              Right. Because if anyone else wrote Transformers or Star Trek directed by JJ Abrams, they would have bombed.
              No idea. But don't let that ruin your theory.

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              • #22
                Re: Bob Orci Yells at Star Trek Fans

                Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                I am a fanboy of well crafted, intelligently thought out films. Star Trek Into Darkness is about as opposed to that as you can get.

                Orci went onto a fan site that made some valid critiques of the movie and started telling people that "I'm a Hollywood screenwriter, so you just don't get what I was trying to do." There are a bunch of threads on how "you just don't get it" is the writer's fault, not the reader.

                He justified that his movie must be good because it made a lot of money. Let's see him write something not based on a franchise with a built in audience or directed by JJ Abrams. If Star Trek Into Darkness was an original concept, that script would have been thrown in the trash.
                You're here to rant so at least stand by your motivations. You're a Star Trek fan and you're annoyed at the reboot films, outraged at the changes to characters and canon so spare the "I'm the fan of well-crafted sci-fi".

                You say Orci went to town on perfectly valid criticisms well so did your fellow fanboys on his equally valid points. And you, as a screenwriter, should be more empathic to him because you know what the development process is like.

                New Star Trek isn't aimed at the old fans, hence it's departure from the past. It's aimed at gaining new fans - with the added bonus of pulling in old fans along the way - which is why you're griping like a world-class sourpuss now.

                As for stating with certainty the script would've been binned had it been original, that's a ludicrous statement and one seriously dented by the fact that, existing property or not, the script did get greenlit.

                Like I said, there's no pleasing fanboys. Even if Orci did exactly what you wanted someone else would spit their dummy out. Now you can either sacrifice your blood pressure by raging at something you can't stop or you can watch DVDs of the old series and focus on getting your writing to such a level that a major studio will pay you big bucks to desecrate some other fanboy's greatest love.
                Last edited by SundownInRetreat; 09-13-2013, 05:39 AM.
                M.A.G.A.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Bob Orci Yells at Star Trek Fans

                  Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post
                  You're here to rant so at least stand by your motivations. You're a Star Trek fan and you're annoyed at the reboot films, outraged at the changes to characters and canon so spare the "I'm the fan of well-crafted sci-fi".

                  You say Orci went to town on perfectly valid criticisms well so did your fellow fanboys on his equally valid points. And you, as a screenwriter, should be more empathic to him because you know what the development process is like.

                  New Star Trek isn't aimed at the old fans, hence it's departure from the past. It's aimed at gaining new fans - with the added bonus of pulling in old fans along the way - which is why you're griping like a world-class sourpuss now.

                  As for stating with certainty the script would've been binned had it been original, that's a ludicrous statement and one seriously dented by the fact that, existing property or not, the script did get greenlit.

                  Like I said, there's no pleasing fanboys. Even if Orci did exactly what you wanted someone else would spit their dummy out. Now you can either sacrifice your blood pressure by raging at something you can't stop or you can watch DVDs of the old series and focus on getting your writing to such a level that a major studio will pay you big bucks to desecrate some other fanboy's greatest love.
                  Nope.

                  None of my complaints with Star Trek Into Darkness have anything to do with fanboyism. They have to do with a horribly written movie. I'm not here whining that they put Spock and Uhura in a relationship that never existed in the original series. I'm saying that they wrote a script full of plot holes and stupid science. Then when someone brings up valid criticisms of the series, they argue that "you just didn't get it" and the amount of money it earned proves that it's a quality product.

                  You can write me off as a fanboy if you'd like so you don't have to listen to anything I have to say. That's your choice. This is a forum about screenwriting, and I'm talking about the craft in this movie. But if you want to use Star Trek Into Darkness as an example of good sci-fi writing, go ahead. I wish you all the best.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Bob Orci Yells at Star Trek Fans

                    Star Trek ITD was a hot mess. There's really no other way around it. The movie is a hot mess. Here are just a few reasons, off the top of my head:

                    - The super secret command post that is right in the middle of the building with only a thin sheet of glass between it and the outside world? Now, in case of war or emergency, let's take our entire command staff for the whole fleet and put them in that room. Genius.
                    - The complete lack of suspense in the final act as there couldn't have been anyone, anywhere who thought they were going to kill off Captain Kirk.
                    - The lack of tension of the fact that even with Kirk switched for Spock it was completely boring to know every beat of what should be a suspenseful scene when they copied it straight from the original Khan. Right down to the part where you think, "Now Spock will scream Khan's name in an over the top way"
                    - The Deux Ex Machina of "Kirk's dead", "No he's not. We have magic blood that will totally bring him back to life."
                    - The fact that any director who takes over will have to blow up the magic blood factory in the opening sequence or they have a universe where no one can die. Boring.
                    - They had to give Khan a homicidal idea to kill everyone on Earth in the final act. If not, Khan was totally the good guy who was just trying to free his people from an evil federation keeping them in stasis for their own selfish needs.

                    Even with all of that, I don't really blame Orci. I don't think they sat down to write this and thought, "We just successfully rebooted Star Trek to the point that we can tell any story we want... let's remake Wrath of Khan". That was all done above them as the studio has to fight with CBS for control of the characters. CBS still makes $20 million a year from marketing the original characters and they have say in the movie. That's $20 million reasons worth of pressure on the writers to keep status quo. That's the reason JJ jumped when Disney gave him the keys to the Star Wars Kingdom. No competing interests. Disney has it all and they gave him creative control. That movie was a hot mess for decisions made far above the writers and director.

                    But Orci should have kept his mouth shut. First rule of politics, when you answer a negative attack, you've already lost. You've given voice to the charge. Don't feed the trolls! I have a friend whose wife is a total Negative Nancy Nerd. She actually revels in and brags about how she can find the flaws in any story or film. I went round and round with her once on one of my short films and then swore "Never again". Her cloak of negativity is just too thick to the point that I told my friend, "When all you are is negative, people stop caring what you think because they already know". If Orci had kept his mouth shut it would have been just another message board in a world full of them, populated with people who live to be negative but have no outside outlet to get anyone else to care or listen. Why the hell would you give them a microphone?

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