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Old 03-31-2010, 02:20 PM   #131
Laura Reyna
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Default Re: Fatal Flaw?

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I can't tell you how pissed off I get when the Academy does something like nominate Ethan Hawke in TRAINING DAY for Best Supporting Actor.
This still bothers me.

Hawke has as much or more screen time as Washington-- as well as being the protagonist!
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:25 PM   #132
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Default Re: Fatal Flaw?

This goes way back so I might have it wrong.

I seem to recall that James Woods went berserk during an interview for Against All Odds when the interviewer implied he was the antagonist and not the protagonist.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:35 PM   #133
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Default Re: Fatal Flaw?

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I can't tell you how pissed off I get when the Academy does something like nominate Ethan Hawke in TRAINING DAY for Best Supporting Actor.
I don't believe that's the academy's call. I believe sometimes actors go "down a weight class" believing that there's less competition.
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:33 PM   #134
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Default Re: Fatal Flaw?

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I find it strange that something as elementary as determining the hero of a story confuses anyone on these boards.

The protagonist is the main character - it's their story.
Things like this seem so obvious...I guess not.
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:40 PM   #135
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Default Re: Fatal Flaw?

bio, i respectfully disagree about maggie in mdb. her stakes in the story - she desires to be a ring fighter. she didn't start the story as one, so she didn't have anything to lose except going back to the trailer parks. since the extended family thread was only a light offshoot of the dt, i don't see that as being high enough stakes for such a powerful story. a journey is about regaining what is lost. maggie can't regain what she didn't lose, and can't lose what she didn't have.

frankie on the other hand was created as someone who has something to lose. he's already lost a prize fighter that abandoned and humiliated him; and; he's already lost his daughter. both stakes are high; one is personal, the other is professional. frankie has a journey to make and when maggie walks in the door, she immediately sets him on edge. to me, that's what an antagonist does -- pushes the protag into a corner and then keeps coming; ie, upsets the ordinary world.

maggie is frankie's million dollar baby - she's a representation of daughter, fighter, pride, determination and respect all rolled into one package. exactly what frankie is missing but a flaw he doesn't recognize until his ordinary world changes. when frankie pulls the plug on her assisted life machine, he's both physically and symbolically letting go of his flaw and recognizing that he can go on as a healed individual. the film is his story and what this scrappy, determined girl did to change his life.

anyway, that's how i see mdb. everyone has a different perception and half the fun of writing lies in the interpretation.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:49 PM   #136
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Default Re: Fatal Flaw?

Million Dollar Baby - the title even says it's Maggie's story.

She the protagonist. She is the character that has the goal that drives the story on what all else hinges. We watch her grow and struggle and push forward with the help of her unlikely mentor.

Frank's not the one in the ring fighting. Frank's not the one riding the bus home, longing to have a better life. Frank's not the one trying to support his family. Frank's not the one doing anything except trying to help the protagonist achieve her goal.

Sure, Frank may have struggles of his own and might even arc, but it's not his story.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:58 PM   #137
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Your disagreement is exactly what I didn't like about MDB.

The first two acts are her story, and then suddenly it turns into a story about him. The third act is very much his story, and it ends up being really tedious and unsatisfying (to me) because it's not dealing with the character I care about and the issues I found interesting up to that point in the film.

YMMV.
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:17 PM   #138
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Default Re: Fatal Flaw?

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Your disagreement is exactly what I didn't like about MDB.

The first two acts are her story, and then suddenly it turns into a story about him. The third act is very much his story, and it ends up being really tedious and unsatisfying (to me) because it's not dealing with the character I care about and the issues I found interesting up to that point in the film.

YMMV.
M$B does have a very disjointed feel. I don't care for it nearly as much as the movie wants me to.
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:20 PM   #139
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Default Re: Fatal Flaw?

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I don't believe that's the academy's call. I believe sometimes actors go "down a weight class" believing that there's less competition.
i think it's got to do with paycheck. the one with the biggest paycheck is the main character and the protagonist.
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:21 PM   #140
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All right, Jim, last try.

What would you say the logline of Casablanca is? Shawshank?
no don't! walk slowly away from the computer.
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