Another "we see" question - seriously

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  • #61
    Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

    I rarely - if ever - use we see. But I do use we soar, we hover, we look down on ... I must be roadkill now.
    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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    • #62
      Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

      Originally posted by Kenneth Fisher View Post
      I got a good one:

      Code:
      As Jeff (the hero) nonchalantly crosses the street, we see,
      but he doesn't see, the cyclist hurtling in his direction.
      Or maybe it's not a good one.
      In general, who is this We, we're writing about? I think of We as the writer and the reader. To me, it implies we (the writer, the reader and the eventual audience) see the cyclist, but Jeff doesn't.


      Jeff nonchalantly crosses the street. We see the cyclist hurtling toward him.

      That's enough for me to visualize what's happening. If you want to make it melodramatic and show how the audience reacts add: We scream at Jeff, to warn him.

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      • #63
        Re: Another "we see" question - seriously



        That is the smiley for wide-eyed and dismayed. We don't have a smiley for WEEPING, which I would use if we had one.

        "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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        • #64
          Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

          (I really tried, but I'm just not strong enough.)

          Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
          Use "we see" when it feels right.

          Never use "we don't see."

          There you go.
          Sarah and Frank stroll hand-in-hand along the wooded path. Suddenly Frank runs ahead. Boom! Something large and dark pounces on Frank. We don't see the escalating carnage, but it is reflected in Sarah's face. The sounds of growls, Frank's screams, tearing flesh, and crunching bones are paralyzing.

          We still don't see what Sarah sees. And finally we don't see the thing that snaps Sarah back to her senses and makes her turn and run - run for her life.


          There may be a better way to write this, but this just feels right.
          Last edited by TwoBrad Bradley; 10-01-2011, 01:39 PM.
          "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
          - Clive Barker, Galilee

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          • #65
            Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

            Originally posted by Todd Karate View Post
            I'm going to try and steer this in a different, hopefully more useful direction.

            TBB, a lot of writing isn't quantifiable. It isn't just numbers. It needs finesse, and subtlety, and things like that. So you are correct in your pondering.

            There are times when it's appropriate to misspell a word. There are times when it works to break the fourth wall and speak/write directly to the reader. There are times when it's better or worse to write long or short a/d.

            It's all about making those unquantifiable choices. It's the tao of writing. There is no answer.
            Todd, thank you for the post. Maybe this also is a more useful direction.

            Say, for example, it is one of those times where it would be appropriate to misspell a word.

            What is the time?

            Then when you misspell a word a different time, what is that time?

            I'm not looking for an all inclusive list of why writers make the choices they do. I just think it would be helpful to others to get a list started.
            "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
            - Clive Barker, Galilee

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            • #66
              Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

              Oh, I think I know what TBB is trying to do. He's trying to imply camera movement with the "We see" and "We don't see." So it's less about what we see on screen but how he's writing the action to guide the camera movement.

              I think in that case, you need to find a style that fits your voice and the tone of the script. The way TBB wrote it about Sarah and Frank is really awkward and too fourth-wall-breaking.

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              • #67
                Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                Originally posted by TwoBrad Bradley View Post
                Todd, thank you for the post. Maybe this also is a more useful direction.

                Say, for example, it is one of those times where it would be appropriate to misspell a word.

                What is the time?

                Then when you misspell a word a different time, what is that time?

                I'm not looking for an all inclusive list of why writers make the choices they do. I just think it would be helpful to others to get a list started.
                If you're a writer, you know. If you're not, you don't.

                And if you're a noob writer, you'll figure it out.

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                • #68
                  Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                  Originally posted by TwoBrad Bradley View Post
                  I'm not looking for an all inclusive list of why writers make the choices they do. I just think it would be helpful to others to get a list started.
                  There is no list, nor one that can be created. This is the art part of writing, not the science part. It is governed by intuition, not by prescription.

                  Kubrick expressed this phenomenon excellently: "Sometimes the truth of a thing is more in the feel of it than the think of it."

                  It's a skill you'll acquire, or not, through experience and persistence. In the end you'll discover that either you have it or you don't and ultimately no amount of posting here, no matter how well intentioned, will help you.
                  "Friends make the worst enemies." Frank Underwood

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                  • #69
                    Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                    My opinion has arced. I think "we don't see" can be used in some situations.

                    Two Brad, I get what you're attempting. It's ok to use "We don't see" when an action or description is part of the scene, but takes place offscreen. There probably are "better" ways to write what you wrote and what I attempted to edit below, but

                    I DON'T think one should NEVER use "we don't see." It's a style choice. What works. There are no rules. F.T.R.



                    Sarah and Frank stroll hand-in-hand along the wooded path.

                    Suddenly Frank runs ahead. Boom! Something large and dark pounces, grabs him.

                    We don't see the escalating carnage that's reflected in Sarah's face. The growls, Frank's screams, tearing flesh, and crunching bones parlayze her.

                    We still don't see the thing as the carnage grows silent, the thing roars, and Sarah turns to run - run for her life.


                    There may be a better way to write this, but this just feels right.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                      Someone should write a screenwriting book just about the use of 'we don't see'.


                      Maybe call it Save Schrödinger's Cat!
                      "Only nothing is impossible."
                      - Grant Morrison

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                      • #71
                        Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                        Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                        Use "we see" when it feels right.

                        Never use "we don't see."

                        There you go.
                        At the risk (nay - certainty) of being contrary just for the sake of it:

                        Code:
                        [B]All the President's men - Script by William Goldman[/B]
                        
                                                                               CUT TO: 
                          ANOTHER SERIES OF CREEP EMPLOYEES. 
                          Only they aren't slamming doors, they're sitting in various  
                          rooms of their houses and apartments. [B][COLOR="Red"]We don't see the  
                          reporters or hear their questions[/COLOR][/B] but the answers they receive  
                          make it self-evident. We start with the middle-aged man seen  
                          above.
                        Code:
                        [B]Bruce Almighty - Script by Steve Koren & Mark O'Keefe.
                        Rewrite by Steve Oedekerk[/b]
                        
                        ANGLE - SAM 
                        Circling, getting ready to go on the carpet. Bruce casually  
                        warns. 
                        
                                              BRUCE 
                                  Sam. Uh uh uh. 
                        
                        Sam looks at Bruce for a beat, then walks into bathroom,  
                        raises the toilet seat with his nose, and STANDS UP ON HIS  
                        TWO HIND LEGS, HOLDING HIS SNAUSAGE WITH HIS FRONT PAWS [B][COLOR="Red"](NO,  
                        WE DON'T SEE IT)[/COLOR][/B] AND STARTS TO GO. He looks proudly back at  
                        Bruce. 
                        
                                              BRUCE 
                                  Sam. Uh uh uh.
                        Code:
                        [B]Titanic - Screenplay by James Cameron[/B]
                        
                                   ROSE 
                         
                        Date it, Jack. I want to always remember this night. 
                         
                        He does: 4/14/1912. Rose meanwhile scribbles a note on a piece of Titanic 
                        stationary. [B][COLOR="Red"]We don't see what it says[/COLOR][/B]. She accepts the drawing from him, 
                        and crosses to the safe in the wardrobe. 
                         
                        She puts the diamond back in the safe, placing the drawing and the note on 
                        top of it. Closes the door with a CLUNK!
                        Code:
                        [B]Deader - (Spec Script that sold)[/B]
                        
                                          WINTER
                                    Close your eyes.
                        
                                          AMY
                                    Why?
                        
                                          WINTER
                                    Close your eyes.
                        
                           Amy hesitates, then closes them.  Winter begins to move
                           her hand down.
                        
                                    WINTER
                                    I'm moving your hand down.  You're
                                    going to feel something wet.  There. 
                                    Do you feel it?
                        
                          [B][COLOR="Red"]We don't see what Amy's hand is touching[/COLOR][/B], but we hear a
                          kind of wet, sticky sound.
                        I have to admit - the Bruce Almighty example was pretty funny. And yes - it actually said 'snausage'. I'm going to use that word from now on.

                        Mac
                        (PS: I had to include at least one spec script that sold to defeat the usual refrain)
                        (PPS: I just spotted a fault in the Titanic script. Jack, an Irish kid, uses the American date format to write! Woo-hoo! I'm officially an annoying pedant who can argue that he's superior to James Cameron!! )
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                        • #72
                          Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                          Yeah, I was wrong about that. TBB isn't allowed to. Everyone else can.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                            Originally posted by Mac H. View Post
                            I just spotted a fault in the Titanic script. Jack, an Irish kid, uses the American date format to write! Woo-hoo! I'm officially an annoying pedant who can argue that he's superior to James Cameron!! )
                            That would be an excellent catch if not for the fact that Jack isn't Irish. The very first thing the script says about him is "Jack is American" and he's rather obviously an American in the movie, so... where the hel| did you get the idea that he's Irish?-

                            -

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                            • #74
                              Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                              Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                              Use "we see" when it feels right.

                              Never use "we don't see."

                              There you go.
                              Quoted for truth.

                              (ignoring the Mac H post on the assumption everyone understands the above quote)

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Another "we see" question - seriously

                                Reasons why the use of "we see" may be the better choice:
                                1- The screenwriter needs to emphasize a specific character.
                                2- To (re)introduce an unexpected character mid-scene.
                                3- The screenwriter needs to emphasize a specific action.
                                4- The screenwriter needs to emphasize a specific object.
                                5- To highlight an action or object among many.
                                6- Because it feels right.
                                7- To draw the reader into the story.
                                8- To build a fourth-wall to define a particular writing style.
                                9- To mix things up a bit.
                                10- ...

                                I'm sure there's more. A list does exist. The experience and expertice of the screenwriter makes the right choice easier.
                                "I am the story itself; its source, its voice, its music."
                                - Clive Barker, Galilee

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