Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

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  • #61
    Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

    Goose, from around para 7 of your post, you discuss/develop the tentative steps that lead up to going wide. Are you saying here, if I understand you, that it's about getting that script -- strategically/carefully -- to more and more people, without spoiling its appeal. In short ?

    i.e.
    If you were very lucky and two or three players started a bidding war early on in that process, all good and well, but as you extend out, and wide, it's easy, if your co -strategies with reps aren't carefully handled, to spread that script too wide and too quickly (e.g. to wrong talent/prodcos/other), and therefore the chances of it not remaing hot go up, and eventually, it'll die.

    in effect - the script has been shop soiled for now, it's lost heat and cooled off. What a shame, as a different approach may have produced a better result (always accepting throughout other luck/bad luck variables, and that imponderable push and pull of the cosmos !)
    Last edited by The Road Warrior; 06-18-2009, 08:58 AM.
    Forthcoming: The Annual, "I JUST GOT DUMPED" Valentine's Short Screenplay Writing Competition. Keep an eye on Writing Exercises.

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    • #62
      Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

      Well, goose and Jeff have made many valid points and have advanced the arguments of the debate.

      I know that my short posts perhaps can be interpreted to mean that "going wide" is equated with a poorly connected rep. I did not meant to say that, but you may be correct that my comments lead you to assume that.

      The points of my posts were directed toward newbies, of which I am one, and any pre-conceived notion of how reps should work. My rep made the comment to me about throwing scripts at the wall to see what sticks, and he focused on developing the script to the point where it was ready to sell. So the focus was on writing first.

      Again, my defense centered against those who said that this was the wrong way to go.

      My comments center on the need for the newbie not be so concerned with the finer points of representation, granting that there will be a time for that. It seems that the writer should be concerned about writing first, because if the script is not ready, then the finer points of representation are moot at best.

      I think if you gather up all of my posts, that is the gist of what I am saying.

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      • #63
        Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

        Originally posted by The Road Warrior View Post
        Goose, from around para 7 of your post, you discuss/develop the tentative steps that lead up to going wide. Are you saying here, if I understand you, that it's about getting that script -- strategically/carefully -- to more and more people, without spoiling its appeal. In short ?
        Almost. But it's a little more complicated than that.

        Remember, the scenario I generated at the outset is based on a very generic set of parameters. Still, there are very, very many instances of rolling out a script just like the one I presented. In that case, it's about both generating "heat" for your project and finding the right home for it.

        Yes, there are absolutely occasions where reps have shot a script straight out of the cannon to everyone around town and such an approach has resulted in a massive failure. However, I would argue that these situations are more related to the quality of the script than the ferocity of the approach. If a script is solid, that really CAN work. If a script is crap, it just makes everyone look bad.

        So yes...part of rolling a script out slowly is to build heat, to get a few people talking, and to get those who aren't yet in play interested. There's a certain nuance to that, though again...good writing will always trump heat in drumming up interest in a script. There are definitely scripts that sell on their heat alone, but that's more due to people being insecure in their jobs/positions and not wanting to be left out in the cold on what's perceived to be the next big thing.

        More, though, I believe such a considered approach is about finding the right home for your script. One of the goals in screenwriting is certainly to make as much money as possible. ONE of the goals. To me, it's far more important to work with people who share my vision on a story - not agree on every small detail, but see things as going down the same road as I do - and to get as many quality films made as possible. If that's your focus, it doesn't always make sense to go to the highest or first bidder just for the sake of making a deal. When you're doing your job, the money will be there. That's not a question.

        When you're going out narrow or semi-narrow with an eventual plan to go out wide, you're hoping first and foremost that the script or project strikes the fancy of someone you REALLY want to work with. That's why, often, there are a select few who are at the top of the list. When you're starting out, your reps can decide on those people based on their past relationships and, in a lot of cases, the general meetings you've had with those contacts yourself. As you progress in your career, you find people you want to work with (or continue working with) and people you'd rather not.

        So I would say that you're on the right track, but I don't think you can make it as cut and dried as your question posited. I will say this: there are a lot of reps that will develop a script with an unsold writer and then, once it's ready to go, just flat-out unleash it on the town. Why? Well if you have confidence in the material, there's no reason to not test it out on a grand scale. Best case scenario, you start a bidding war and your quote is on the upswing from day one. On the low end of the good side of the scale, you don't make a sale...but you then have your name on a hundred different radars for assignment and rewrite prospects.

        Hope that answers your question.

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        • #64
          Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

          Almost. But it's a little more complicated than that.

          Remember, the scenario I generated at the outset is based on a very generic set of parameters. Still, there are very, very many instances of rolling out a script just like the one I presented. In that case, it's about both generating "heat" for your project and finding the right home for it.

          Yes, there are absolutely occasions where reps have shot a script straight out of the cannon to everyone around town and such an approach has resulted in a massive failure. However, I would argue that these situations are more related to the quality of the script than the ferocity of the approach. If a script is solid, that really CAN work. If a script is crap, it just makes everyone look bad.

          So yes...part of rolling a script out slowly is to build heat, to get a few people talking, and to get those who aren't yet in play interested. There's a certain nuance to that, though again...good writing will always trump heat in drumming up interest in a script. There are definitely scripts that sell on their heat alone, but that's more due to people being insecure in their jobs/positions and not wanting to be left out in the cold on what's perceived to be the next big thing.<<<<

          Agreed. And, a big part of a successful roll out is choosing your first round of submissions VERY wisely. This first round should yield partners that are players, that are respected, and that will champion the material with buyers. This is what can push a script over the top into a sale and also what can ultimately spark a bidding war. If the first round of subs goes well, then people will start to call and ASK for the script, and the buzz will begin and off of that you can go wide with momentum.

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          • #65
            Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

            Very insightful, goose & SB.

            Question: Roughly how long should this process take? And is this not the rep's job, to strategize?

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            • #66
              Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

              Originally posted by cmmora View Post
              Farnsworth... I for one admire your resolve. You have chosen a path that you believe will bring you the best results and I truly wish you luck.
              If Farnsworth truly believed in his "path" as much as you imply here, I doubt he would constantly be trying to create opportunites to explain and defend it.

              More and more it seems like the justifications he constantly presents on this board (even when nobody is calling for them or asking) are intended to calm his own concerns that the path he is walking may be the wrong one.
              "I hate to break it to you but there is no big lie. There is no system. The universe is indifferent.- - Don Draper

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              • #67
                Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

                Originally posted by SBScript View Post
                Agreed. And, a big part of a successful roll out is choosing your first round of submissions VERY wisely. This first round should yield partners that are players, that are respected, and that will champion the material with buyers. This is what can push a script over the top into a sale and also what can ultimately spark a bidding war. If the first round of subs goes well, then people will start to call and ASK for the script, and the buzz will begin and off of that you can go wide with momentum.
                Precisely what my first manager did with a script of mine. Because he began to disseminate it in a careful and discriminating way, and the tracking was positive, people started to call and ask for it. Many really wanted it, but the subject matter frightened them off (it was a little too current). But I did get a number of meetings and assignment pitches out of it.

                The script is once again making the rounds, six years later.

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                • #68
                  Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

                  Originally posted by joe9alt View Post
                  If Farnsworth truly believed in his "path" as much as you imply here, I doubt he would constantly be trying to create opportunites to explain and defend it.

                  More and more it seems like the justifications he constantly presents on this board (even when nobody is calling for them or asking) are intended to calm his own concerns that the path he is walking may be the wrong one.
                  You're probably right about that, joe. I am concerned about the path I am taking. I have more confidence in my writing ability than in my marketting ability, and then I don't have all that much confidence in the former.

                  (See, joe, I knew I would hook you sooner or later.)

                  Although I am the object of attack on many of these posts, I do value all opinions.

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                  • #69
                    Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

                    Originally posted by Farnsworth View Post

                    (See, joe, I knew I would hook you sooner or later.)
                    You're creeping me out a little more than usual, dude.
                    "I hate to break it to you but there is no big lie. There is no system. The universe is indifferent.- - Don Draper

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                    • #70
                      Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

                      Originally posted by Farnsworth View Post
                      Question: Roughly how long should this process take? And is this not the rep's job, to strategize?
                      Very valid question. Unfortunately the answer is: it's complicated.

                      Someone asked me this in one form or another in a PM the other day, and I'll say the same thing I said to them: the timetable on a script sale is much like the timetable on a kidnapping investigation. If something significant isn't happening within the first 48-96 hours, the chances of anything happening at all get exponentially lower by the day.

                      However, within that statement, there's a LOT of wiggle room.

                      In my only personal experience going out wide with a project, there was heat within the first couple of hours and the sale was made in just a shade over a week. However, I would say as a general rule of thumb (again, with a lot of latitude to account for circumstance), if something's going to go down it'll gown down within three weeks to a month.

                      But again, just so we're clear, that's not at all a hard and fast rule - more of an average, but that can be deceiving. There have been scripts that have been through the mill, in very similar forms each time, that have taken YEARS to sell - and have seen themselves sold to the very producer/studio that passed over it several times previous. Changes in content, changes in executive staff, changes in the marketplace and/or trends...all of these can contribute to a sale happening later rather than sooner. It just doesn't happen too often that something sells a grand amount of time after it's been put out there.

                      My horse is so far beyond dead that he's almost born again, but I'm going to continue to beat the sh*t out of him: a majority of the time a script doesn't sell because it's simply not good enough. That's the bottom line. There are exceptions, but that's really the end-all here. If a script goes out and doesn't get traction, you can blame any factor you want, but mostly you just have to pick yourself up by your bootstraps, look in the mirror, and say, "I need to get better as a writer so that this gets better as a script."

                      As far as your second question...I guess I'm not sure why it's a question, but yes, the job of the reps is to understand both you and the market to develop a submission strategy.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

                        Originally posted by Farnsworth View Post
                        .

                        The points of my posts were directed toward newbies, of which I am one, and any pre-conceived notion of how reps should work. My rep made the comment to me about throwing scripts at the wall to see what sticks, and he focused on developing the script to the point where it was ready to sell. So the focus was on writing first.
                        Just to clarify ... your rep has been developing one single script with you for two years ongoing and he still feels it's not ready to go out?
                        Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                        • #72
                          Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

                          Yep Goose, that was very clear. (and thx SBScript. also).

                          it's refreshing to hear your take on quality. And if you are fortunate enough to find some good people etc, and keep working with them, or return to one of a number of such groups, that sounds like a rewarding career. A large paycheck doesn't do any harm either.

                          I set out the question in a narrow sense btw, because I didn't want to second guess you, you know how it is, in a linear exchange like this - if you set out too many avenues in the question, various spin offs, then eek, you've often prepared a kind of convoluted or muddled list for the OP to order pick from ...



                          The other issue related to this area that springs to mind is the "to option or not to option" aspect.

                          Scenario: You have some good people interested in a very good script, and ... if you option too soon, and there are other good people of course who are likely but not guaranteed to appear, then ... after a while, the risk of the original parties enthusiasm waning, may become a factor. Pressure builds ?

                          Would you mind elaborating on this, any experience you have of how to formulate an approach, or is it open to too many ifs and buts ... and does the industry accept certain time limits to assist, as an "unwritten rule", some breathing space may be given, or alternatively, the hard fact - if prodco1 wants this material, why take off the pressure, they ideally don't want prodco 2 and 3 to appear ... again, I've tried to set this out as an oversimplified progression ...

                          ?
                          Forthcoming: The Annual, "I JUST GOT DUMPED" Valentine's Short Screenplay Writing Competition. Keep an eye on Writing Exercises.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

                            Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                            Just to clarify ... your rep has been developing one single script with you for two years ongoing and he still feels it's not ready to go out?
                            Well, this thread is about goose. Scan over the part where he talks about taking years, in some cases, to develop a script, and perhaps that will answer your question.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

                              Originally posted by Farnsworth View Post
                              Well, this thread is about goose. Scan over the part where he talks about taking years, in some cases, to develop a script, and perhaps that will answer your question.
                              No, he didn't say develop; he said sell.

                              "There have been scripts that have been through the mill, in very similar forms each time, that have taken YEARS to sell"

                              Big difference.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Spec Market Strategies: IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

                                Originally posted by docgonzo View Post
                                No, he didn't say develop; he said sell.

                                "There have been scripts that have been through the mill, in very similar forms each time, that have taken YEARS to sell"

                                Big difference.
                                Selling a script implies developing a script. Development comes first.

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