A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

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  • A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

    Has anyone ever entered a screenwriting contest that has a "pay for feedback" option? A lot of them do. So on top of your entry fee you would pay extra for feedback from the reader. Your choice. Do it or don't do it, right? Which leads me to... has anyone felt the slightest suspicion that if they do not do that then their script isn't getting read? I sometimes wonder if not paying the fee makes the over-worked reader drop your script after barely a page when he/she would be forced somewhat to read/skim your script until the end if you paid for feedback thus giving your script a better chance of advancing in the contest. Is there feedback bias? Anyone else wonder about this? I tend to avoid contests that make you pay extra for feedback because of this theory.

  • #2
    Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

    Originally posted by purplenurple View Post
    Has anyone ever entered a screenwriting contest that has a "pay for feedback" option? A lot of them do. So on top of your entry fee you would pay extra for feedback from the reader. Your choice. Do it or don't do it, right? Which leads me to... has anyone felt the slightest suspicion that if they do not do that then their script isn't getting read? I sometimes wonder if not paying the fee makes the over-worked reader drop your script after barely a page when he/she would be forced somewhat to read/skim your script until the end if you paid for feedback thus giving your script a better chance of advancing in the contest. Is there feedback bias? Anyone else wonder about this? I tend to avoid contests that make you pay extra for feedback because of this theory.
    During the Nicholl Fellowships competition, readers never know whether the writer of any script opted to purchase comments. We also assign scripts without knowing whether comments have been purchased.

    Readers are expected to read and to provide comments for every script they are assigned.

    Since comments can be purchased at any time through December 31 of the current Nicholl competition year, your conjecture could be tested (and more or less is by entrants who purchase comments late in the year).

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

      I think it would be a relief to the reader not to have to write feedback. It's much less tedious to just read the screenplay than to have to write feedback to be read by the screenwriter, especially since for contests, you can't always be as brutally honest (read: you're not supposed to outright alienate the client, even if they suck donkey balls as a writer) as you want to be. Take it from one who knows. But you still read the screenplay, that's your job.

      But go ahead and don't enter, or pay for feedback, if you don't want. No one's forcing you to spend money.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

        Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
        During the Nicholl Fellowships competition, readers never know whether the writer of any script opted to purchase comments. We also assign scripts without knowing whether comments have been purchased.

        Readers are expected to read and to provide comments for every script they are assigned.

        Since comments can be purchased at any time through December 31 of the current Nicholl competition year, your conjecture could be tested (and more or less is by entrants who purchase comments late in the year).


        Greg, I'm curious why - since your readers are required to provide comments anyways - is there a charge to buy them? It's understandable (to me at least) if no comments were written in the first place, but since they already are, why aren't they provided free? Thanks for your response.

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        • #5
          Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

          It's interesting in reading on these boards all the confusion and suspicions people have with readers - some first hand, other's second hand - that some one with refuse to believe in human nature. How many posts have I read that someone knows an exec' or reader in some contest and they never even got to the pile of scripts they were supposed to? Do a search. So in reading this kind of stuff and knowing human nature then am I led to believe some reader with 25 scripts to read that week but only 10 of them paid for feedback is really going to give all 25 the same look? I'm not so sure. It's not policed. if this person has a pile of scripts YOU'RE HOPING he/she is reading each one of them.

          If you pay for feedback the reader has to at least skim until the end. If you don't the reader will give it - what? - 1 page, maybe 5 pages if you're lucky before dropping it. It's not like the contests have 1 reader per 10 scripts. it could be 1 reader to 200 scripts for all we know until it gets thinned out to the finals where other eyes (execs, managers etc etc) join in, but to weed out 50 out of 1000, 2000 or more scripts comes down to how many readers? I bet not even as close as you'd imagine.

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          • #6
            Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

            You're looking for confirmation bias. ( "People are saying..." Where have we heard that before?)

            There's also plenty of examples on here of readers for contests saying yes, they do read all the scripts they get. Often more closely than the writer does.

            If you have to force them to pay close attention to your script, you are failing on your part as a writer, whether they're paid to write a critique or not. That simple.

            Everyone that reads scripts is looking for one that will make that hour or so worth of time fly by.

            If this is making you crazy, stop entering contests. You'll never be satisfied with the answer unless you sit in the room with the reader and watch them turn every page yourself.

            Query instead. No one's holding you back. That's so much easier.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

              Um, I'm just saying the system is not policed and if 99% of everything is corrupted by laziness wouldn't it stand to reason if a reader had the ability to cut corners he/she would do it?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

                Originally posted by purplenurple View Post
                Um, I'm just saying the system is not policed and if 99% of everything is corrupted by laziness wouldn't it stand to reason if a reader had the ability to cut corners he/she would do it?
                Those are some pretty big assumptions you're pulling down there. As you said in your heading: paranoia.

                But there's a simple solution. Don't spend your money on contests if that's what you think will happen. Or... spend the extra money on the notes to make sure you're fully read. (But I kind of suspect you won't be happy with the notes anyway.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

                  If you're at all concerned about this, there's an easy option: don't enter contests.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

                    Originally posted by Nostalgialover View Post
                    Greg, I'm curious why - since your readers are required to provide comments anyways - is there a charge to buy them? It's understandable (to me at least) if no comments were written in the first place, but since they already are, why aren't they provided free? Thanks for your response.
                    In part, to begin to recover the costs of modifying the Nicholl database to make the comments available.

                    In part, to break even on the cost of reading (we spend more on reading than entry fees provide for every script entered by the early and regular deadlines).

                    In part, because some writers have told us they have no interest in receiving comments.

                    In part, to feel as if the staff is receiving some additional compensation (we actually aren't) for checking the comments and providing regular feedback to the readers.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

                      Originally posted by gregbeal View Post
                      In part, to begin to recover the costs of modifying the Nicholl database to make the comments available.

                      In part, to break even on the cost of reading (we spend more on reading than entry fees provide for every script entered by the early and regular deadlines).

                      In part, because some writers have told us they have no interest in receiving comments.

                      In part, to feel as if the staff is receiving some additional compensation (we actually aren't) for checking the comments and providing regular feedback to the readers.


                      Thank you, Greg.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

                        Some of the responses seem to repeat the same thing as if it never occurred to me... that's "don't enter a contest then." Bravo. That's like me saying "you know when I have a problem with my car I go to a certain mechanic and I suspect he over charges me." And you reply "don't drive a car then" or "stay away from mechanics if that bothers you" or "even if you watch him fix your car and document the time put in you will still feel slighted so why not sell the car to begin with?"

                        If everyone is so fancy free about life then why not enter your money in every screenplay contest? Why not? Why narrow it down to a couple like you do every year. Every contest is honest, right? Every contest gives you super exposure, right? Every query letter service is equal. Every reader reads beginning to end every script before them. Every "producer" on craigslist is a serious producer. Why bother questioning anything because no one is out to make a buck - am I right? How about this... if you don't like the thread then why give a response?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

                          It's coming off more like you're saying all mechanics are crooks. Or mechanics that use a wrench are crooks...


                          When you say "the system is not policed and if 99% of everything is corrupted by laziness".

                          It just seems you're not much interested in anyone that provides a counter to you. When met with "no, the reader who is asked to provide notes is not going to be biased to that script over another," you keep insisting that they are. And basically, most of what you've posted here is railing against contests in one form or another. Contests are a gamble. There are no guarantees. Do your due diligence

                          Here's what readers are biased toward: a better script over a mediocre one. Readers know when they want to move a script forward, whether they provide notes or not.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

                            Carcar, I'm sorry I offended you. I didn't know you were a reader and that you love your job as a reader. No, it couldn't be that many of these contests are fly-by-night or not as organized as we're led to believe. Sometimes contests miss semi-finalists dates because people didn't attack that pile of scripts in a timely manner. How did they make up for loss time? Oh, I'm sure the contest hired more readers. Yeah, that's it. If you've ever talked to an industry person and you have cause you're a reader then you know there is a definite number of pages they do not go beyond. Some it's 10. Others it's 5. I wonder if it slides down when they're hurried. But what do I know? Contest people wouldn't take your money and not read it would they? I've never seen a post here over the years that says that have I? But you say all contests are on the up & up so I guess I'm being silly for even suggesting the possibility. Oh, heavens.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A Little Contest Paranoia For Ya

                              Originally posted by purplenurple View Post
                              Some of the responses seem to repeat the same thing as if it never occurred to me... that's "don't enter a contest then." Bravo. That's like me saying "you know when I have a problem with my car I go to a certain mechanic and I suspect he over charges me." And you reply "don't drive a car then" or "stay away from mechanics if that bothers you" or "even if you watch him fix your car and document the time put in you will still feel slighted so why not sell the car to begin with?"

                              If everyone is so fancy free about life then why not enter your money in every screenplay contest? Why not? Why narrow it down to a couple like you do every year. Every contest is honest, right? Every contest gives you super exposure, right? Every query letter service is equal. Every reader reads beginning to end every script before them. Every "producer" on craigslist is a serious producer. Why bother questioning anything because no one is out to make a buck - am I right? How about this... if you don't like the thread then why give a response?
                              If you don't trust mechanics, learn to fix your own car.

                              If you don't trust contests, find another way to get your scripts in front of people.

                              Are there contests out there that are trying to rip you off? Probably. There are a dozen threads on this forum where people discuss which competitions are worth the money of applying, but you can win all of them and that still doesn't guarantee you anything beside the prize money.

                              With all the random elements of taste, mood, personal opinions, you're worried that you might be discounted for awards because you didn't pay for coverage?

                              It reminds me of people who don't want to send their scripts to production companies because they're afraid someone will steal their ideas. There are way more important things to worry about.

                              Comment

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