'Nother staffing Q:

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  • 'Nother staffing Q:

    So... spoke to my rep yesterday and they advised me to come up with 4 new TV ideas to talk about in meetings.

    Ummm... WTF? Like in a week or so? Sounds reasonable.

    I explained that I don't just 'come up' with ideas on the fly -- that I wouldn't feel comfortable talking about ideas I'm not 1000% sure I'd want to write [I'd see right through that as an exec or showrunner]. The rep responded 'just think of some worlds you're interested in.' Again... HUH? Worlds? These worlds may only exist if I dream them up, I don't always find 'inspired by true events' stories/worlds -- one has to be extremely lucky to find those -- and the biggest [true story] ideas are rare as sh*t -- and even harder to lock down the pro consultants of said world. None of it is something I do on the fly, it all takes time. The only "on the fly" part of the new show was me getting on a plane to fly out and meet the big-dogs of said world and beg them for their story. It took 2 years [of convos and research] to put this story together well enough to write the pilot.

    Ultimately, I explained that I have 3 projects to talk about that I'm passionate and confident about. 1) The TV show I'm developing with the high profile producer. 2) The Action/Thriller feature I'm in the middle of. 3) A hard hitting [dark/violent] premium cable, one hour drama show idea. Ain't that enough?

    Coming up with 4 more ideas would put me at 7 ideas. Who has time to hear 7 ideas in a meeting about -----> NOT MY SHOW? Is that not overkill? Personally, I'd cut someone off after 3, as that'd be enough for me to get how this dude's brain works.

    Besides, I'm in the middle of this feature.

    Thanks for the thoughts.
    DOPE CITY

  • #2
    Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

    That sounds like a good problem to have, but I hear you - I imagine that's annoying when you are really doing everyone a solid and sticking to the ones you think are really good. I think there have actually been some comedy skits about that scenario (maybe also the Kevin Bacon movie 'The Big Picture'?)

    I have the opposite problem - 5 pilots that no one wants to hear about :-)

    Best of luck with your meetings!

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    • #3
      Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

      You shouldn't really mix in feature ideas in TV meetings, and the advice your rep gave you is normal. Have a fully fleshed out primary TV idea or two to talk about, then a couple of other, broader concept-stage ideas if there's time. You don't need to have those secondary ones fully fleshed out. You're hoping that they'll see a grain of something in there and want to get in at the start and help shape.

      This advice only backfired on me once in many years. I met the pres of K/O Paper Products, and she gave me a lot of sh*t for not having every single idea completely fleshed out to multiple seasons (which is f-ing ridiculous and not normal). It's the only time I've ever left a meeting prematurely - it was going nowhere and I didn't like being talked down to, so I thanked her for her time and bailed. No regrets.
      https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
      http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

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      • #4
        Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

        Originally posted by Dingo_Pug View Post
        That sounds like a good problem to have, but I hear you - I imagine that's annoying when you are really doing everyone a solid and sticking to the ones you think are really good. I think there have actually been some comedy skits about that scenario (maybe also the Kevin Bacon movie 'The Big Picture'?)

        I have the opposite problem - 5 pilots that no one wants to hear about :-)

        Best of luck with your meetings!
        Thanks. I think the fact that I take the time to research the crap outta what I write is the only reason I get any meetings. So to toss out half baked jumping off points feels anti-me. ;-)
        DOPE CITY

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        • #5
          Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

          Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
          You shouldn't really mix in feature ideas in TV meetings...
          Yeah? Not even in meet and greets for staffing? Seems odd to me. If I were sitting on the other side of the desk I'd like to know what this person is about. Their feature script [in progress] would be, to me, as relevant as the info in their BIO.

          Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
          ...and the advice your rep gave you is normal. Have a fully fleshed out primary TV idea or two to talk about...
          Got that. Two pilots. One in development, one we're [as of today] going back to Showtime with.


          Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
          ...then a couple of other, broader concept-stage ideas if there's time.
          I have one. Guess I can dig through the ideas I put down [1) An atypical cop show. 2) A period drama inspired by true events involving a family member of mine -- think; sex drugs violence. Big theme.] Both have been something I was discussing with someone at HBO in the past and let go in favor of something else.

          That would make a total of 5 shows I could discuss that have all been vetted by at least 2 [real] people. The other two shows would admittedly be fluff, I have no real interest in developing them at this stage. I either want to aim at big, smart/classy, socially relevant, flagship show bait -- or dark/violent fare.

          Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
          You don't need to have those secondary ones fully fleshed out. You're hoping that they'll see a grain of something in there and want to get in at the start and help shape.
          Yeah? While taking a meeting about staffing they're also on the lookout for new ideas to develop?

          Originally posted by ProfessorChomp View Post
          This advice only backfired on me once in many years. I met the pres of K/O Paper Products, and she gave me a lot of sh*t for not having every single idea completely fleshed out to multiple seasons (which is f-ing ridiculous and not normal). It's the only time I've ever left a meeting prematurely - it was going nowhere and I didn't like being talked down to, so I thanked her for her time and bailed. No regrets.
          That is very strange. How the F' is anyone supposed to have ANY idea fully fleshed out? Development people, most of all, should know that.
          DOPE CITY

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          • #6
            Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

            My bad - for some reason I misinterpreted these meetings as TV development meetings, not just staffing meetings. Although, it seems like your agent might be seeing them this way too. If it's purely staffing, you can ignore much of what I said, especially about mentioning your feature work, since it is part of what you bring to the table. Just remember that if there's a chance these execs are looking at you in terms of development too, it's better to focus on TV ideas of yours that don't already have homes. No exec wants to spend much time talking about something of yours they can't have, and if you spend a bunch of time talking about a project you have at Showtime, they might see you as unavailable at best or someone who might look down on the actual job job they're offering at worst. Every TV writer wants their own show, but when you're going for a StaffWriter or Story Editor job, for instance, just be mindful of coming across as someone who doesn't really want it. As for what ideas to talk about, the point is to show you're creative and imaginative - but the exec is also secretly hoping that you'll drop something brilliant in their lap that they can run with.
            https://twitter.com/DavidCoggeshall
            http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1548597/

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            • #7
              Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

              I'm a little puzzled by your rep's advice, because of the 8 staffing meetings I've had with network/studio executives, the only time I pitched show ideas was at a cable network where the director of current ALSO worked on the development side.

              Otherwise, the only time my new show ideas come up in a staffing meeting is if they ask something like "what are you working on now?" which I usually answer in less than a minute so that I can get back to talking about their shows...

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              • #8
                Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

                Yeah, I think the reps are seeing it as a bit of both. I get what you're saying about the feature. Was just going to mention it in passing.

                As for as the 3 projects in question: 1) With a high profile producer attached. 2) Going back to Showtime. 3) Wide open, never been mentioned to anyone.

                In your opinion, how should I frame that as to not come off like I don't want the gig or think I'm above it? The reality is that I'm just trying to hustle like everyone else. Of course I want my shows made.

                My pitch to them, should I make it that far, would center on the fact that I used to work in that fashion [as a team] in a different creative capacity, so I understand that work load and the dynamic. I miss it. I think I would both enjoy it and have a different POV that I think could be a benefit to their creative process. That, and I'm fun as sh*t to kick it with.
                DOPE CITY

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                • #9
                  Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

                  Originally posted by Zodraz View Post
                  I'm a little puzzled by your rep's advice, because of the 8 staffing meetings I've had with network/studio executives, the only time I pitched show ideas was at a cable network where the director of current ALSO worked on the development side.

                  Otherwise, the only time my new show ideas come up in a staffing meeting is if they ask something like "what are you working on now?" which I usually answer in less than a minute so that I can get back to talking about their shows...
                  That's exactly what I was imagining. The age old "what are you working on." Which I wrap up quickly. So... to need/mention 7 projects seem absurd to me.

                  BTW - via a legit management firm.
                  DOPE CITY

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                  • #10
                    Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

                    My writing partner and I can't sit down for lunch without coming up with 2-3 new television concepts we'd have no problem discussing in a meeting. I don't think your reps are expecting you to have full on pitches for each of these ideas, just something in your pocket. These are staffing meetings, not meetings with production companies, so you're not looking to sell these ideas, just show that you have a head filled with interesting concepts.

                    I'd also say that your feature ideas aren't really helpful in a staffing meeting. It's like interviewing to be a mechanic and talking about your skill woodworking. It's nice, but how much does it really help your potential boss?

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                    • #11
                      Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

                      Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                      My writing partner and I can't sit down for lunch without coming up with 2-3 new television concepts we'd have no problem discussing in a meeting.
                      That's great. How many of them do you think would sell? If your answer is "all of them", I wish you the best of luck. Sincerely.

                      Everyone creates differently.

                      I can dream up 10 ideas today -- that I think are just "ok." Not my style. Furthermore, 90% of what's on TV I believe sucks [sue me]. I'm extremely particular about what I'm willing to develop for myself. I think this is the reason everything I've gone out with has landed in one way or another [5 scripts]. Today I'm only interested in big concepts, those are harder to come by. Those are brutal to come by, save for dumb luck.

                      Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                      I don't think your reps are expecting you to have full on pitches for each of these ideas, just something in your pocket. These are staffing meetings, not meetings with production companies, so you're not looking to sell these ideas, just show that you have a head filled with interesting concepts.
                      As it stands I can talk about:

                      1. HBO-esque Flagship-esque fancy show.
                      2. Showtime-esque one hour drama.
                      3. FX-esque action/drama.
                      4. HBO-esque action/drama
                      5. Network-esque gritty cop show.

                      That seems like plenty to me. I'll keep my mind open to other possible concepts, but I'm not the type to say "I'd like to do a show set in the world of banking." That means fvck all to me. What's the SHOW? If I'm the showrunner and someone said that to me in a meeting, that's my response "Cool man… what's the show." If they couldn't tell me dip about the world/characters I'd feel they were trying to fluff me. [I can think of a particular writer who prides himself on being prolific. I don't believe he's written as many screenplays as he says.] I'm prolific once I believe in the premise as something we've never seen before. I've written feature screenplays in 2-4 weeks that landed -- If speed is the issue.

                      Also. If I were the showrunner and they were willing to pitch me crap show ideas I would pass on them staffing for my own show. I'd much rather someone nail me with 3 kick ass concepts, as opposed to throwing the kitchen sink at me. Thus, if there are showrunners interested in hearing wank ideas, I'm probably not the right guy for their show and they should pass on me -- with no hard feelings.


                      Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                      I'd also say that your feature ideas aren't really helpful in a staffing meeting. It's like interviewing to be a mechanic and talking about your skill woodworking. It's nice, but how much does it really help your potential boss?
                      I respectfully disagree. I believe story is story. I'd want to know if someone had written features, plays, novels, comics, etc. It would show me a layer.

                      I'd say most of all [and obviously none of this is my call] I'd want writers who weren't only writers. I wouldn't be interested in those who came straight out of college into screenwriting and never lived a life doing interesting things before coming to writing. Whomever showrunner is looking for that… I believe I'm their guy. If there are none. I'm content to try and put my own shows/films together.

                      No offense meant. Just keeping it 1000. I appreciate any and all thoughts.
                      DOPE CITY

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                      • #12
                        Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

                        BTW -- anyone here ever had their own show on? I'd like to hear your process. Thanks.
                        DOPE CITY

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                        • #13
                          Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

                          My understanding is that showrunners do like to hear ideas. They want to know if you can contribute to breaking story. But my understanding is that those ideas they want to hear are ideas about their show. Since, you know, that's what you're interviewing for.

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                          • #14
                            Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

                            Jeff Lowell has had his own show, maybe if he's around he'll answer (last post was February). Jeff's career started in TV on staff for six years, had a few features produced, came back to TV staffs and then sold a pitch which made it to air. "Manhattan Love Story." Three words, all you'd need to pitch.

                            Being a staff writer is about showing you can come up with a lot of ideas fast. That's the job. I was just on a show that had to write eight episodes in ten weeks, without a lot of forgiveness in production because it's block and shoot. A showrunner's not going to ask you for four ideas in a week, they'll ask for four ideas by lunch.

                            Not every pitch has to be perfect, it's just about having a lot of them and having them come from different angles. I have eight projects in various states I'm working on. Some are a one-line world. They all explore my interests.

                            I just met with talent thanks to a studio off a two-word pitch because it's an interesting world we haven't seen before that I have a personal relationship to. No, they're not a dime a dozen, but how can your story ideas talk about you?

                            If you lived a life doing interesting things before coming to writing, then talk about that. What's your "surf" show? What's your "tat" show? What's your "boy" show? No one's asking for a series bible. It's basically a vessel to highlight what you're passionate about and interested in.

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                            • #15
                              Re: 'Nother staffing Q:

                              Originally posted by juunit View Post
                              My understanding is that showrunners do like to hear ideas. They want to know if you can contribute to breaking story. But my understanding is that those ideas they want to hear are ideas about their show. Since, you know, that's what you're interviewing for.
                              Yeah, you hear "have five episode pitches" more than series world pitches. I've heard the best way to do that is, "Character is kind of like my brother, who one time..."

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