Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

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  • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

    Originally posted by JoJo View Post
    It's a significant gender disparity, and as part of the minority, I have a right to question it.
    Sure you do. And I have a right to refute your reasoning. I don't think it has anything to do with men being "more visual" and women "more verbose." It's not as though there's a greater female than male proportion of writers in other mediums...

    http://www.salon.com/2011/02/09/wome...ry_publishing/

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michel...b_1409008.html

    http://polisci.osu.edu/conferences/v...AGenderGap.pdf

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    • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

      I think it's a fair question, though. Literary agents are ALWAYS looking for more men to add to their lists - I've heard this again and again on twitter and blogs from some of the top agents in the industry. The publishing world definitely seems female-dominated these days - maybe that's not reflected in the statistics, but I've always felt that being a guy would have been a real advantage in securing a literary agent.

      In screenwriting, it's a totally different story. And I'm not really sure why.

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      • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

        Originally posted by versed View Post
        I think it's a fair question, though. Literary agents are ALWAYS looking for more men to add to their lists - I've heard this again and again on twitter and blogs from some of the top agents in the industry. The publishing world definitely seems female-dominated these days - maybe that's not reflected in the statistics, but I've always felt that being a guy would have been a real advantage in securing a literary agent.

        In screenwriting, it's a totally different story. And I'm not really sure why.

        You've heard a literary agent specifically say that they are looking for male clients?

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        • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

          it has been only relatively recently - within the past 20 years - that technologic advances like computers, screenwriting software, and the internet opened up the screenwriting industry to a wider group of potential writers. shifting from an almost exclusively (white) male profession to more a diverse composition simply takes time.

          Comment


          • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

            Well, this was eye opening....

            Finally, I got one blessedly telling explanation from an industry pro: "The audience doesn't want to listen to a bunch of women talking about whatever it is women talk about.-

            "Not even if it advances the story?- I asked. That's rule number one in screenwriting, though you'd never know it from watching most movies: every moment in a script should reveal another chunk of the story and keep it moving.

            He just looked embarrassed and said, "I mean, that's not how I see it, that's how they see it.-

            According to Hollywood, if two women came on screen and started talking, the target male audience's brain would glaze over and assume the women were talking about nail polish or shoes or something that didn't pertain to the story. Only if they heard the name of a man in the story would they tune back in. By having women talk to each other about something other than men, I was "losing the audience.-


            http://thehathorlegacy.com/why-film-...-bechdel-test/

            Maybe women-written scripts get rejected more than say women-written novels (70% of novels are bought by women), and women screenwriters, facing a high percentage of rejection, give up, and therefore don't pursue it as a career, and therefore don't enter contests in large numbers.
            "Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." -[/SIZE] James R. Cook

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            • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

              Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
              it has been only relatively recently - within the past 20 years - that technologic advances like computers, screenwriting software, and the internet opened up the screenwriting industry to a wider group of potential writers. shifting from an almost exclusively (white) male profession to more a diverse composition simply takes time.
              According to Greg, the ratio hasn't changed much.
              "Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again." -[/SIZE] James R. Cook

              Comment


              • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                I don't think it matters necessarily, I just thought the ratio was interesting. Accordingly, women don't proportionally fare better or worse in the Nicholl finals -- as usually at least one fellow is a woman.

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                • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                  Originally posted by CthulhuRises View Post
                  You've heard a literary agent specifically say that they are looking for male clients?
                  Yes!! Several times, from top lit agents.

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                  • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                    "You've heard a literary agent specifically say that they are looking for male clients?"

                    Originally posted by versed View Post
                    Yes!! Several times, from top lit agents.
                    That's a disgrace. We're in 2012, not the 1960's.

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                    • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                      Originally posted by AlexNoa View Post
                      Greg, has the number of finalists/fellows selected ever changed since the contest's inception?
                      Finalists have ranged from 8 to 11.

                      The rules have stated up to five fellowships will be awarded since at least 1989. In 1986, the first year, three fellowships were awarded. In 1987, the administrators more or less had two competitions - one open to college students from multiple states and the other open to residents of Texas - as a first expansion step. Five fellowships were awarded to the college students and two to the residents of Texas. (I wasn't around during those years so don't know exactly how it worked and whether the 1987 competitions were in fact separate.)

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                      • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                        Originally posted by JoJo View Post
                        Why don't more women enter? It has to with why don't more women write screenplays? That's what I'm questioning.

                        I'm sure the percentage of entries written by women reflects the percentage of women writing screenplays....

                        Women are 51% of the population, yet only 30% of the screenwriting population.

                        Why is that?
                        Because it's hard. Because it's time consuming and they have families. Because they have better things to do. Because estrogen rots their brains. Because neither Melpomene nor Thalia ever wanted to grace people with vaginas. Because the moon is tidally locked with the Earth. Because Wendy's changed their french fry recipe.

                        Who cares?

                        Not every activity known to man has to be numerically equal. I suppose if someone wants to get indignant because their particualr group is underrepresented in a particular activity, that's their right, but at the end of the day identity politics isn't going to make a script worth a crap. Either one has talent or one doesn't and no one in Hollywood is going to drop $100,000,000 on a film just to say that they bought a script from a gay black albino Wiccan midget transsexual with psoriasis and three kids.

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                        • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                          Originally posted by Steven R View Post
                          Because it's hard. Because it's time consuming and they have families. Because they have better things to do. Because estrogen rots their brains. Because neither Melpomene nor Thalia ever wanted to grace people with vaginas. Because the moon is tidally locked with the Earth. Because Wendy's changed their french fry recipe.

                          Who cares?

                          Not every activity known to man has to be numerically equal. I suppose if someone wants to get indignant because their particualr group is underrepresented in a particular activity, that's their right, but at the end of the day identity politics isn't going to make a script worth a crap. Either one has talent or one doesn't and no one in Hollywood is going to drop $100,000,000 on a film just to say that they bought a script from a gay black albino Wiccan midget transsexual with psoriasis and three kids.
                          I dunno - I'd like to see more female screenwriters and directors. I love me some Sofia Coppola, for example. For me, it's like restaurants. If every restaurant in town served classic American fare I'd never get to eat sushi. Or Thai. But hey, what do I know?
                          In the evening when the sun is sinkin' low
                          Everybody's with the one they love
                          I walk the town, Keep a-searchin' all around
                          Lookin' for my street corner girl
                          - Zep

                          Comment


                          • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                            Originally posted by seminarian View Post
                            I dunno - I'd like to see more female
                            Why? Does sex organs make a difference in writing? Or race or religion or any other arbitrary classification? What is it we want, ability or diversity? Do we want the best writers, period, or do we settle for the best writers in a category? If you're one of those minority classification writers, do you really want to break into Hollywood on the back of "well, you weren't the best, but we needed more [CATEGORY] so you'll do?" or do you want "that was some good writing"?

                            If we want more women writers, then more women need to write at that level. If there aren't that many, so what? There aren't many women race car drivers and there aren't many male knitters. That doesn't mean a woman can't win the Indy 500 or a man can't knit a nice sweater. Just go do your thing and don't worry if there's nobody around you who looks like you. God knowns there aren't that many screenwriters as it is.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                              it is utterly shocking how few female screenwriters there are. its not indy 500. its WRITING. the act that females statistically - for whatever that is worth - EXCEL.

                              the issue is not how many women go in - and i cannot belive someone said, "its hard and women are doing other things." its not about women at all. its about the industry.

                              its that the vast majority of films that get made are geared TO MEN. the statistic - that is a self fulfilling prophesy - is that on "date night" women will go see a movie that a man wants to see, but a man wont see a movie a woman wants to see.

                              double that for the teenage population. its changing but we had a decade and a half of most huge movies geared toward teenage boys.

                              the second level of myth is that even if you're writing for men, women can't do that. but thats at least a conversation.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Nicholl Fellowship 2012 open for submissions

                                Originally posted by Steven R View Post
                                Why? Does sex organs make a difference in writing? Or race or religion or any other arbitrary classification? What is it we want, ability or diversity? Do we want the best writers, period, or do we settle for the best writers in a category? If you're one of those minority classification writers, do you really want to break into Hollywood on the back of "well, you weren't the best, but we needed more [CATEGORY] so you'll do?" or do you want "that was some good writing"?

                                If we want more women writers, then more women need to write at that level. If there aren't that many, so what? There aren't many women race car drivers and there aren't many male knitters. That doesn't mean a woman can't win the Indy 500 or a man can't knit a nice sweater. Just go do your thing and don't worry if there's nobody around you who looks like you. God knowns there aren't that many screenwriters as it is.
                                What some of us would like to see is more ability AND more diversity.
                                In the evening when the sun is sinkin' low
                                Everybody's with the one they love
                                I walk the town, Keep a-searchin' all around
                                Lookin' for my street corner girl
                                - Zep

                                Comment

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