Opening Scenes

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  • #16
    Re: Opening Scenes

    Originally posted by figment View Post
    He also wrote Battlefield Earth.

    And has online classes -- this one costs a mere 595 dollars!

    https://coreymandell.net/professiona...ision-writing/

    And... he's not a writer anymore, according to the video. But he'll teach you to be one!!
    He's the guy who wrote that and apologized for writing it? Ha! I love those guys. I learned to never judge a writer in Hollywood by the movies they work on unless they are also the writer/director. You get the jobs you can get.

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    • #17
      Re: Opening Scenes

      Originally posted by lostfootage View Post
      That YouTube channel Film Courage has asked a lot of different screenwriters the same question -- how long do you give a screenplay before you know it's not gonna work, get out of the car, etc. Most of the writers they've asked say the first two scenes, maybe up to the first ten pages. But that's it.
      Well that's why this place cracks me up. Because we fight all the time (discuss) about feedback and scores and how unfair things are -- but when we are the readers we do the same things!

      In NYC -- if i'm walking, i hate the drivers. If I'm in a car, I hate the drivers. And I always hate people on bikes regardless. That's how I sum up writers vs readers divide.

      The best thing you can do if to read screenplays for a company as an intern where your forced to read some real crap and some good stuff. Reading black lists script isn't going to cut it. Being a paid reader for a studio isn't going to cut out. I'm talking about scripts that haven't made it that far -- I read for a few NYC production companies, so they had some filters but it's not the same as bigger places. Man did I learn so much. I'm still haunted by some 163 page spec with a long ass title. I hated it from the title. My god.

      And there was a script i read that I never got out of my head and it was first agent I contacted it because of it.

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      • #18
        Re: Opening Scenes

        The opening scene of Rio Bravo (1959) was pretty sweet. Four minutes with almost no dialogue but you meet the protagonists and see the strain in their relationship, watch the main plot get set into motion, meet one of the villains, and see what's going to motivate the primary villain. Also, and most importantly, you get to see some slick gunplay, a couple people busted over the head, and some poor bastard shot in the gut.

        In all honesty this scene kind of confused me at first but all of the questions it poses are quickly answered. I liked it in any case.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSqloJazgR4

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        • #19
          Re: Opening Scenes

          Originally posted by Bono View Post
          I learned to never judge a writer in Hollywood by the movies they work on unless they are also the writer/director. You get the jobs you can get.
          True. Though that credit wouldn't inspire me to pay someone nearly 600 dollars for an online course, but I wouldn't pay any writer 600 dollars for an online anything, so...

          And his statement that you've only got a page or two seems false -- I'm guessing if you are being read by a prodco, their readers are writing coverage, which would mean they'd have to at least skim the thing. If for nothing more than to list the reasons they hate it.

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          • #20
            Re: Opening Scenes

            Originally posted by figment View Post
            True. Though that credit wouldn't inspire me to pay someone nearly 600 dollars for an online course, but I wouldn't pay any writer 600 dollars for an online anything, so...

            And his statement that you've only got a page or two seems false -- I'm guessing if you are being read by a prodco, their readers are writing coverage, which would mean they'd have to at least skim the thing. If for nothing more than to list the reasons they hate it.
            Aaron Sorkin wouldn't inspire me to spend 600 bucks. I can think of things worth that, but you can't post that now in 2020 but I'm sure the joke comes through.

            Yes -- that's what I was saying. I HAD TO READ THE WHOLE script to give coverage.

            However -- the people that can make decisions at a company -- they may stop reading after 3 pages.

            The whole reason they have readers is so they can just read the coverage and save time reading the damn script if they don't have too.

            I've been in meetings and it's clear they haven't read the script. Or read so many they don't remember. Anyway -- yes save the 600 bucks.

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            • #21
              Re: Opening Scenes

              Originally posted by Bono View Post
              ... So this all circles back to why I started this thread -- make the first page dynamic. First scene funny, scary, action packed -- whatever it's supposed to be. Make them want to keep reading and don't give them an excuse to put it down and read the next spec.
              The question is -- how do you make the first scene dynamic?

              Years ago I was talking with an amazing advertising art director. He won national awards for design on a regular basis.

              He shared something he learned in college studying design from one of his professors: your first idea is usually garbage because it's literally off the top of your head. So execute that first idea to get it out of your system then throw it away and start again.

              This forces you to dig deeper for a better idea. Execute that second idea and set it aside. Then dig deeper for your third idea which is usually even better.

              I had an ah-ha moment because the same advice could easily apply to writing an opening to hook the reader.

              Not just writing for advertising but writing an opening to anything -- novels, short stories, screenplays ....

              Since then, I fight the inclination to run with my first idea for an opening scene and force myself to dig deeper.
              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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              • #22
                Re: Opening Scenes

                But the opposite can be true. You think your first "gut" instinct can't be as good as your over thought fourth instinct and that's not always true.

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                • #23
                  Re: Opening Scenes

                  Originally posted by Bono View Post
                  But the opposite can be true. You think your first "gut" instinct can't be as good as your over thought fourth instinct and that's not always true.
                  So your point is?
                  Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                  • #24
                    Re: Opening Scenes

                    That your first instinct isn't always garbage. Sometimes it's your best idea. Judge the scene on it's own not when you thought of it.

                    Often I've had ideas, then talked out of it by reps and the new ideas seems so much better or new joke or new scene -- but then you realize -- nope I did get it right the first time.

                    So your point was don't go with first instinct. My point was why deny yourself a chance that you did get it right the first time?

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                    • #25
                      Re: Opening Scenes

                      Originally posted by Bono View Post
                      That your first instinct isn't always garbage. Sometimes it's your best idea. Judge the scene on it's own not when you thought of it.

                      Often I've had ideas, then talked out of it by reps and the new ideas seems so much better or new joke or new scene -- but then you realize -- nope I did get it right the first time.

                      So your point was don't go with first instinct. My point was why deny yourself a chance that you did get it right the first time?
                      You like being the contrarian, I see.

                      I'll cry uncle and concede you don't have to literally destroy and toss out your first idea for an opening scene. However, running with it and never even trying to come up with alternates is -- IMO -- denying yourself an opportunity to come up with a better idea.

                      To date, there has never been an instance where my first idea was the best of the three. Using that process has served me in my day-job writing, prose fiction and screenwriting.

                      I'd bet you likely go thru that process, too -- in your head. You have your first idea then think, "Eh, how about this (second idea) instead? Wait, how about this (third idea)? Yes, that's the winner." Then you write it down and feel like it was your first idea.

                      Frankly, I think being too attached to our writing, our initial ideas, stifles growth as writers.

                      If one can be as objective as humanly possible, dispassionate when we judge out own work -- as objective and dispassionate as the people who we seek to sell our work to -- it opens a passageway to greater creativity.

                      That's all I'm suggesting: if you want a dynamic, opening scene that grabs the reader and makes them sit up and pay attention, consider that your first idea is not solid gold. Go on a mental mining exposition and dig deeper for better ideas.
                      Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Opening Scenes

                        I'm just being me. I don't disagree for the sake of. I'm just giving my POV and often I'm in the minority. Are you not allowed to disagree on this board? Did I miss a meeting?

                        I am currently now trying to find the right opening scene for a spec. I had an opening scene, but rep thinks it may need a more funny start to get us into it. But I keep thinking -- maybe I was right the first time and I'm just making it worse trying to add on a scene that doesn't want to be there.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Opening Scenes

                          Originally posted by Bono View Post
                          I'm just being me. I don't disagree for the sake of. I'm just giving my POV and often I'm in the minority. Are you not allowed to disagree on this board? Did I miss a meeting?

                          I am currently now trying to find the right opening scene for a spec. I had an opening scene, but rep thinks it may need a more funny start to get us into it. But I keep thinking -- maybe I was right the first time and I'm just making it worse trying to add on a scene that doesn't want to be there.
                          Reps don't walk on water. Your original scene may be the better one. What you were asked to add my well be a note behind the note. Make your original scene funnier. Since my day job workload has been light, I'll give the opening a read for you if another opinion may be of value to you. I give decent notes according to a couple members here. PM me if that sounds good to you.
                          Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Opening Scenes

                            Originally posted by Cyfress View Post
                            Good stuff, Cyfress, thanks for sharing it.
                            "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy b/c you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden

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                            • #29
                              Re: Opening Scenes

                              YouTube has a plethora of stuff on screenwriting. You'll even see Bill Martell in some interviews, he posts here sometimes.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Opening Scenes

                                Speaking of Quentin he has some amazing opening scenes.

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyR4RK0LA_E

                                I don't think most of us can get away with a 9 minute opening scene in script land. But he was going to make it so it mattered less to him.

                                Don't forget to take chances kids. It may pay off.

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