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Old 01-20-2014, 02:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

I'd say there's a fair amount of conjecture going on here...
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

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Originally Posted by TheRangeMatters View Post
MWe got in touch with some of our other writer friends, Between us all (and there are major contest finalists and winners amongst us), someone should have hit the mark somewhere, but nope. Nothing. Nada.
I too have have pondered the calibre of the pros prowling the waters and I believe better money needs to be offered to readers so I won't pick up on that. However, what I will pick up on is you like to single out choice words so here is mine: some. You talked to "some" writer friends and on the basis of that you feel that's enough to spot an undeniable trend? That would be cool if there were just "some" scripts on the Black List but there's not, there's thousands.

Also, 'tis arrogant to assume one of your group's scripts "should" have hit the mark, don't you think? You know how tough the industry is so why should one have been good enough? Even the Nicholl is still an amateur contest and its finalists aren't necessarily up to professional standards (which is what the BL marks to). Speaking of contests you say your clan boasts finalists and winners of major contests - care to name them and provide some perspective and credentials?

I also find it hard to believe that anyone with big-time results in competitions of that stature, whose scripts are as solid as you say. would even need the Black List in the first place. Don't you all have rep deals with CAA, WME, Paradigm and CoC?

I can't claim a Nicholl win but as a result of the Black List, I scored an 8 (twice), a manager, and had dialogue with Joel Schumacher Productions. I also saw my response rate shoot up when I put my BL score in my queries to bonafide players (which means the BL does open doors). So do these good results make me a shill? And as the script that got me all this bombed out of BlueCat at the first hurdle does that mean BlueCat is a scam, too?

Or does it mean opinion varies?
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

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Your thoughts and comments? (I do expect a fair amount of trolls and paid shills to come out in force on this one, in addition to the rational and objective thinkers that I welcome), but hey, there's nothing better than a healthy, no-holds-barred, uncensored discussion about a hot topic.
I've been saying this for a while. So have a rather large number of others posting on forums around the 'net. I've argued with Leonard on this site. There are many many better options. The lesson is: you get what you pay for. Cheap labor is just that.

Careful research and a well-crafted query are far more likely to get a script read by an actual producer's reader, than TBL. And you'll know who is reading. And it's free for the writer.
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

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They're all feeding on your hopes and aspirations, and making a bundle of money from it.
This by far is the most fascinating part to me. Gotta say, I'm in damn awe.

Do the math on the $$$ the site's pulling in. More breathtaking than a freshly shorn scrotum.

Kudos FL.
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

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Originally Posted by TheRangeMatters View Post
Even The Bitter Script Reader (a popular screenwriting blogger) seems to have been fooled. It was brought to my attention that his script, "Toby is Now Following You," is currently on one of the Black List's top lists. Is it there because it's actually good? I don't know. I haven't read it. Could it be there by and through manipulated high score "reader" evaluations in order to "disarm" The Bitter Script Reader's usual astuteness for spotting BS? Could be. You don't know who is allegedly reading and scoring your script from behind the scenes. But one thing is for sure, I don't think it's a coincidence that The Bitter Script Reader's script is on one of the top lists. If someone like The Bitter Script Reader were to NOT be on your side, the money train (for a site like The Black List) stops abruptly, because a lot of writers and new writers read his blogs for tips and a heads-up on what's what on all things screenwriting.
I take issue with virtually everything you say in your long post, but this, THIS really shows you don't know what you're talking about. As Rhodi already pointed out - I have NOT paid for ANY evaluations from the Black List. My Black List experience is completely irrelevant to your baseless attack on the professionalism of the readers.

Further, it's incredibly easy to discover that fact. Not only are there no reviews on my script, but I flat-out stated on my own blog that I was not purchasing reviews from the Black List readers. If you're going to slander someone's professionalism and integrity, it would behoove you to do a modicum of research.

But you didn't, and I think any rational person would find that to be a severe hit to your credibility, especially since this screed is your first post, which was clearly made to stir up trouble. Most of the issues you raise here have been discussed and addressed directly on this very board by Franklin.

As for my script, I'm using the Black List site for hosting it to their members. Nothing more. And so far I've been pleased with my results.

As a user of the site, I feel pretty secure in crying "hogwash" at your insinuation that readers score scripts below 8 as a way of encouraging them to purchase more reads. I've seen plenty of scripts score 8 and higher. Hell, each week I get two emails full of scripts that have hit that benchmark.

In all honesty, I think that the site might be TOO generous with their 8s because so many scripts are spot-lit each week that it becomes harder for individual scripts to stand out. My notes to the readers would be to be more selective, not less.

Also if you make use of the sites charts about the percentage of scripts that gets each score, it looks pretty kosher to me.
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Old 01-20-2014, 04:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

... well, yep -- there's the proof-positive of the conjecture I wondered of....
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Old 01-20-2014, 04:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

I wasn't going to comment on your post, but the more I've been thinking about it:

I'm all for you shredding apart the black list. I agree: PHA-Q black list, but it's messed up calling out a writer like you've done here. To call him/her/it out w/o any proof to support your claim, that's hardcore. I honestly feel you owe him/her/it an apology.
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:36 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

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The success stories are far and few in between IMO. Did the people who scored deals already have representation? If you do your research, you'll see that the most popular deals were for those who probably already had reps (no coincidence), and for those who DIDN'T have reps that scored, who were they? (Last time I checked, it was a guy (Justin Kremer, whom you already know of) who just so happened to have interned for the Black List (no coincidence).

Okay, I glided over this in my earlier post, but I really feel Justin Kremer AND Franklin are owed an apology for this. Unless you have some kind of proof it's not a coincidence, you should retract this statement and profusely apologize to those you've smeared.

Franklin has addressed this issue before:

"To clarify, from time to time, we put out calls for individuals to assist us with various tasks like transcribing interviews and alerting us to information about Black List scripts that comes up via the news. In exchange for such occasional assistance, we allow those individuals to call themselves interns though it is an “internship” in the loosest possible sense of the term.

"Justin submitted his script without my knowledge. He paid to have his script hosted. He paid to have it read. It was read with no further information beyond its genre, as is the case with all of our screenplays. It was evaluated and included in our emails based on that evaluation and was downloaded and subsequently rated highly based on the evaluations of individuals who had no knowledge of Justin beyond his screenplay and the fact of its high scores.

"I personally only became aware of the screenplay when its evaluation was published to our site."


And if you'd been a member of this community more than five minutes, you'd also be aware that plenty of people HERE were talking up Justin's script several days before he was signed. There was a buzz around MCCARTHY before CAA signed it. Are you suggesting that everyone at DDP was in on this scam too?

At the time Justin was signed, he had 25 ratings on the site and maintained a 7.7 average. Now you'll probably claim all of those are shills too, but that provokes the question, "If Justin had 25 people in the business who are THAT connected, what would he need the Black List for?" Isn't it more likely that he wrote a script that a lot of people liked?

And as I have said before, even if somehow Justin Kremer pulled off the biggest con possible and managed to get his script to the top of the list undeservedly, CAA still had to make their own decision to sign him.

No agent is going to sign a guy who was a mere INTERN just because of his contacts. Not possible. I know guys who were actual employees of CAA who couldn't get signed there! CAA signed this guy because he wrote a kick-ass script. Period.
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:38 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

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Originally Posted by Bitter Script Reader View Post
I take issue with virtually everything you say in your long post, but this, THIS really shows you don't know what you're talking about. As Rhodi already pointed out - I have NOT paid for ANY evaluations from the Black List. My Black List experience is completely irrelevant to your baseless attack on the professionalism of the readers.

Further, it's incredibly easy to discover that fact. Not only are there no reviews on my script, but I flat-out stated on my own blog that I was not purchasing reviews from the Black List readers. If you're going to slander someone's professionalism and integrity, it would behoove you to do a modicum of research.

But you didn't, and I think any rational person would find that to be a severe hit to your credibility, especially since this screed is your first post, which was clearly made to stir up trouble. Most of the issues you raise here have been discussed and addressed directly on this very board by Franklin.

As for my script, I'm using the Black List site for hosting it to their members. Nothing more. And so far I've been pleased with my results.

As a user of the site, I feel pretty secure in crying "hogwash" at your insinuation that readers score scripts below 8 as a way of encouraging them to purchase more reads. I've seen plenty of scripts score 8 and higher. Hell, each week I get two emails full of scripts that have hit that benchmark.

In all honesty, I think that the site might be TOO generous with their 8s because so many scripts are spot-lit each week that it becomes harder for individual scripts to stand out. My notes to the readers would be to be more selective, not less.

Also if you make use of the sites charts about the percentage of scripts that gets each score, it looks pretty kosher to me.
TheBitterScriptReader HAS been up front that he never bought reads, not only in his blog, but just about every day on Twitter. To call him out when he's been so transparent is pretty damn low. I have not read his script, but I know people in the industry who have and they said it deserves to be where it is on the list on merit. So as others have said, he is owed a public apology.

As to the Black List itself, just look at the top list sometime. It looks to me like a whole bunch of scripts have met the requirements to be in the email blast each week. Someone is getting 8's. It may not have been you or some of your friends, but writers out there are getting 8's or better and getting read. As for your assertion that real producers aren't downloading scripts I only have to point to myself to put the kibosh on that... my Black List script was optioned by a production company that has produced and released 8 films in the last three years and done quite well. When I spoke to them, they had indeed downloaded my script from the email blast and passed it around their office for reads before making me an offer. Which after some negotiations, I signed in December.

I don't work for the Black List. I don't know anyone at the Black List. I'm fairly certain I probably never will. I don't know The Bitter Script Reader personally. I do read his blog. It's funny and smart. And if that's an indication of his script writing skills (which it probably is), I can see how Toby is getting the attention it is, and I for one hope he sells the crap out of it. And I'm happy to say who I am, too....

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Old 01-20-2014, 06:56 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Truth About The Black List (blcklst.com) Must Read

The OP is not a member or contributor of this community but showed up here today and created one post guaranteed to incite... isn't that the very definition of a troll?

Whatever "it" has to say was clearly meant to be inflammatory therefore its veracity should be immediately suspect.
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