Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

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  • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

    Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
    Speaking of what the numbers mean, I believe the frat boys of Kappa Sigma at USC can explain it to us:

    10- The likes of Marissa Miller and Megan Fox. No one will ever get this.
    9- If any of you are lucky to get so close to perfection, feel blessed. If you **** this up, you should be lynched. This is your ceiling.
    8- See #7
    7-Wife Status. Be careful not to **** this up.
    6-Date Status. Be careful when you cheat, but still cheat.
    5-Apply the 5x5 rule. Toot it 5 times, and then boot it. Move onto the next piece of pie.
    4-One night stands, but they are fairly attractive. Should not be repeats.
    3-The filth cut-off. These are not attractive women, but sadly many of you have ****ed these.
    2-Still filth. Still Pathetic.
    1-Anything this close to 0 is bad. You better be 3 four lokos deep to justify this abomination.
    0-Let me just say from experience, when calculating your lifetime pie accumulation, throwing a 0 in the mix really hurts the average.

    Oddly enough, this feels exactly like the Black List "scoring" system.
    Unless she's a cocktail waitress, and your bros can talk her into doing anal on webcam.
    If you really like it you can have the rights
    It could make a million for you overnight

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    • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

      Originally posted by LIMAMA View Post
      Re Jeff's review (and I haven't read his script, so I can't comment on that one way or the other, Susan C I hate you)...
      Sorry to hear you hate me.

      -------------------

      To no one in particular: so far, no has asked me to share JL's script which is great. Because I would have politely said, "no."
      Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

      Comment


      • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

        Originally posted by FranklinLeonard View Post
        There's a logical leap here that I dispute:

        "But the BL seems to be designed to promote the exposure of scripts based on quality (would you pass this on to a peer being the bar), i.e., to matchmake."

        Matchmaking is about matching people to things (in this case, scripts) that they will like, which is subjective and involves personal taste. Evaluating based on quality is a different thing and assumes an objective standard (in this case, of art), a fundamental premise that we reject.

        Hmm--obviously you have put more thought into this than I ever could have--it's your business.

        However, yours is in fact a matchmaking venture, scripts to people. But, you aren't trying to find the match between the right script and the right person, you are trying to find a script which could be a match and then broadcasting its qualities, so that the right person will have the opportunity to find it, correct?

        Claiming that opinions of art can only be subjective is an interesting philosophical position, but the way you have constructed the BL isn't entirely consistent with the position, i.e., you tout the fact that your readers are qualified. If training or qualification can create an outcome that reflects "quality", then you are not actually looking for 100% subjectivity.

        So, if the above is true, that the BL is set up in order to identify "quality" material, then you need to do everything possible to further the goal. This means requiring your readers to the greatest extent possible to put aside personal taste and to work to objectively identify scripts which could find a fan in the production community that could get the material made. Just that simple. That doesn't require the reader to "know the minds" of the professional community at all, as the BL simply puts the project in play and allows the right match to find the material.

        If Jeff's script is "good enough" to have a shot, that is, if it has achieved a minimum of quality in total execution, then the reader, IMO, should have the duty to put it in play. It appears that this was the case with Jeff's script, as per the reader's description of the material and the disconnect with the scores over a single issue, so the fact that it was scored to low to put it in play looks to me like a failure on the part of the reader.
        Last edited by Done Deal Pro; 02-09-2014, 08:58 AM. Reason: Fixed quote code.

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        • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

          Also, I have no problem with the 1-10 scoring system.

          Comment


          • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

            Originally posted by Geoff Alexander View Post
            If Jeff's script is "good enough" to have a shot, that is, if it has achieved a minimum of quality in total execution, then the reader, IMO, should have the duty to put it in play. It appears that this was the case with Jeff's script, as per the reader's description of the material and the disconnect with the scores over a single issue, so the fact that it was scored to low to put it in play looks to me like a failure on the part of the reader.
            You have some good points. It's about recognizing - is there a market for this? Is this right for a particular producer who services that market? It may not be my cup of tea, but there's an audience for this.

            Still, I think this is so tricky. I've said this before, but ask 9 people what they think of a movie and you'll get 9 different answers. Readers get hung up on various things, based on subjectivity and I don't know if that can change.
            Last edited by Done Deal Pro; 02-09-2014, 09:12 AM. Reason: Fixed quote code.

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            • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

              This has been a very entertaining and informative thread. I plan to upload a tv pilot on Black List in the near future for my own curiosity. TV is a medium that I struggle with so I have no doubt the notes will be very helpful.

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              • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

                Originally posted by Geoff Alexander View Post
                Also, I have no problem with the 1-10 scoring system.
                I really don't either. I was just illustrating I think a pass/consider/recommend could be a helpful accompaniment, particularly in situations where the numbers are disconnected from the reader's description of the material. Maybe it's just my vestigial instinct for the established system. But hey, it could be time for a new one. There are lots of things that need fixed in the movie business.

                Truly, it doesn't matter, especially to me. Franklin's site, Franklin's rules. Very happy for the people who have gotten 8s. Hopeful for the people who haven't - yet.
                Last edited by madworld; 02-09-2014, 09:57 AM.

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                • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

                  Originally posted by Hamboogul View Post
                  This has been a very entertaining and informative thread. I plan to upload a tv pilot on Black List in the near future for my own curiosity. TV is a medium that I struggle with so I have no doubt the notes will be very helpful.
                  Cool, I hope you share the results, would love to hear.

                  Also looking forward to hear what happens with Jeff's. Very interesting.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

                    Originally posted by Geoff Alexander View Post
                    Hmm--obviously you have put more thought into this than I ever could have--it's your business.

                    However, yours is in fact a matchmaking venture, scripts to people. But, you aren't trying to find the match between the right script and the right person, you are trying to find a script which could be a match and then broadcasting its qualities, so that the right person will have the opportunity to find it, correct?

                    Claiming that opinions of art can only be subjective is an interesting philosophical position, but the way you have constructed the BL isn't entirely consistent with the position, i.e., you tout the fact that your readers are qualified. If training or qualification can create an outcome that reflects "quality", then you are not actually looking for 100% subjectivity.

                    So, if the above is true, that the BL is set up in order to identify "quality" material, then you need to do everything possible to further the goal. This means requiring your readers to the greatest extent possible to put aside personal taste and to work to objectively identify scripts which could find a fan in the production community that could get the material made. Just that simple. That doesn't require the reader to "know the minds" of the professional community at all, as the BL simply puts the project in play and allows the right match to find the material.

                    If Jeff's script is "good enough" to have a shot, that is, if it has achieved a minimum of quality in total execution, then the reader, IMO, should have the duty to put it in play. It appears that this was the case with Jeff's script, as per the reader's description of the material and the disconnect with the scores over a single issue, so the fact that it was scored to low to put it in play looks to me like a failure on the part of the reader.
                    I honestly believe if the BL would adopt precisely this attitude, a greater number of well-written and well-executed scripts would rise to the top and get discovered by reps and producers.

                    Franklin, if you truly believe this statement: "Evaluating based on quality is a different thing and assumes an objective standard (in this case, of art), a fundamental premise that we reject,- why have a rating system at all? This basically says the ratings are meaningless because they are all based on the reader's subjective opinion, as opposed to the reader's ability to objectively measure the quality of the script.

                    I do believe it's possible to somewhat objectively evaluate whether or not a given screenplay has the potential to work as a film that will be compelling to some type of audience. The role of subjectivity could be lessened if you were to emphasize to your readers that this is the goal. But it appears that this is not the BL goal. I find that disheartening.

                    My website:www.marjorykaptanoglu.com

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                    • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

                      FYI - There's a discount for WGA members, very cool. I might give this a shot soon too but to be honest I don't know if my old work holds up. I do have a couple concepts my agents are less enthusiastic about, maybe those.

                      http://www.wga.org/content/default.aspx?id=5261

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                      • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

                        Originally posted by Geoff Alexander View Post
                        If Jeff's script is "good enough" to have a shot, that is, if it has achieved a minimum of quality in total execution, then the reader, IMO, should have the duty to put it in play. It appears that this was the case with Jeff's script, as per the reader's description of the material and the disconnect with the scores over a single issue, so the fact that it was scored to low to put it in play looks to me like a failure on the part of the reader.
                        "Achieved a minimum of quality in total execution?" Wow, where do I sign up?

                        "Here, read this. It's more or less adequate." Try telling that to a boss and seeing how quickly they jump to read it.

                        The site is designed to shine a spotlight on the best of the best and to match industry pros with scripts they might be looking for. The superlative scripts get the extra nudge of an email blast, but all scripts are still visible and searchable.

                        And as Franklin has pointed out, a number of success stories underline the fact that it's possible to be discovered even with ratings below a 6. And the top lists don't have an "8 or above policy."

                        It's pretty clear than a 8 is the threshold where a reader says, "I put immense support behind this. This WILL be worthy of your time."

                        They don't put people through to the Top 36 on American Idol just because they sing all the notes in the right order.

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                        • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

                          Originally posted by Bitter Script Reader View Post
                          "Achieved a minimum of quality in total execution?" Wow, where do I sign up?

                          "Here, read this. It's more or less adequate." Try telling that to a boss and seeing how quickly they jump to read it.

                          The site is designed to shine a spotlight on the best of the best and to match industry pros with scripts they might be looking for. The superlative scripts get the extra nudge of an email blast, but all scripts are still visible and searchable.

                          And as Franklin has pointed out, a number of success stories underline the fact that it's possible to be discovered even with ratings below a 6. And the top lists don't have an "8 or above policy."

                          It's pretty clear than a 8 is the threshold where a reader says, "I put immense support behind this. This WILL be worthy of your time."

                          They don't put people through to the Top 36 on American Idol just because they sing all the notes in the right order.
                          But how does one reader fathom what might be viably commercial for a myriad of some 2300 industry folks while reading/analyzing scripts.

                          For that reason, I echo Geoff's & Margie's thoughts as I mentioned earlier...
                          " Don't really like writing. But I do like having written." Vince Gilligan, Breaking Bad.

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                          • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

                            Originally posted by Bitter Script Reader View Post
                            They don't put people through to the Top 36 on American Idol just because they sing all the notes in the right order.
                            Actually, they put Sanjaya through to the Top 12, so this is not the best analogy
                            "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

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                            • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

                              Originally posted by MJ Scribe View Post
                              But how does one reader fathom what might be viably commercial for a myriad of some 2300 industry folks while reading/analyzing scripts.
                              They're explicitly told NOT to judge on that criteria. They don't second guess what other people MIGHT think of the script. They are to evaluate it based on their own professional judgement.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Blacklist Secret Shopping Experience

                                Can we agree, though, that readers (many of whom are writers themselves) who estimate the value of written work get it wrong sometimes?

                                And I'm not talking in defense of the newbie who thinks their first draft of their first script is a blockbuster. (Personally, I would not recommend promoting one's very first script even if it's above average for a first script. I say this as someone who made that mistake.)

                                I'm talking about a script like JL's, written by a pro, though edgy, and definitely not PG, that could find a home.

                                Maybe I'm way off base, here. But if I were a producer I would hope my team would show me work that challenges my preconceptions of what I want or like. (There's an old saying in marketing -- most people don't know what they like until you show it to them.) Otherwise a form of Stockholm syndrome sets in. And no one challenges the status quo. And the status quo becomes more and more restrictive to anything remotely innovative.
                                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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