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Old 07-01-2019, 12:11 PM   #21
muckraker
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Default Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

I've read BALLS OUT back in the day and sure it's good.

The example actually seem to be confirming the OP's hypothesis, which is that the way it's written helps it stand out and heightens the storytelling. The voice.

I would argue that ten people can write the same screenplay, beat for beat, without altering the dialogue even, and convey the story in a different voice. Having a good voice can be the difference between a great story poorly or competently executed and an all-around great script.
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

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Originally Posted by muckraker View Post

I would argue that ten people can write the same screenplay, beat for beat, without altering the dialogue even, and convey the story in a different voice. Having a good voice can be the difference between a great story poorly or competently executed and an all-around great script.
i agree completely.

of course, changing some of the dialogue would be optimum to capitalize on the overall tone as well.
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Old 07-01-2019, 05:41 PM   #23
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Default Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

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I've read BALLS OUT back in the day and sure it's good.

The example actually seem to be confirming the OP's hypothesis, which is that the way it's written helps it stand out and heightens the storytelling. The voice..
you're taking a generalization, like "the way it's written" and presenting it as element of screenwriting. What they were saying is that you should write poetry and flowery descriptions in the action lines to sell the script to the reader... the opposing idea would be that someone chooses to write action lines poorly?


As for Balls Out, I'm just going by what I've read the screenwriters have said and what they've been told by producers about the script... that this script was never a spec, just a larp about the state of action screenplays

where did you read that Balls Out was a good example for writers in writing action lines?


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Originally Posted by muckraker View Post
I would argue that ten people can write the same screenplay, beat for beat, without altering the dialogue even, and convey the story in a different voice. Having a good voice can be the difference between a great story poorly or competently executed and an all-around great script
there's a huge difference between action lines in a screenplay and prose in a novel... seems very basic. Am I confused by what you're saying?
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:06 AM   #24
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Default Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

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Originally Posted by muckraker View Post
I would argue that ten people can write the same screenplay, beat for beat, without altering the dialogue even, and convey the story in a different voice. Having a good voice can be the difference between a great story poorly or competently executed and an all-around great script.
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Originally Posted by Julysses View Post
there's a huge difference between action lines in a screenplay and prose in a novel... seems very basic. Am I confused by what you're saying?
Isn't it obvious that changes in word choice and sentence structure in the Balls Out action/description lines would change the tone and voice of the piece.

You could change words while keeping every shot the way it is and the read would "sound" and feel different.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:41 AM   #25
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Default Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

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there's a huge difference between action lines in a screenplay and prose in a novel... seems very basic. Am I confused by what you're saying?
Julysses, muckracker's point was that writers possess their own unique voice, which means their stories are gonna be different. The major elements that form the story that writers will use to tell their story are gonna be different: themes, characters, plot, etc.

Sure, some of the writers may use the same theme, or whatever, but all ten writers are not gonna be telling the same story in the same exact way.
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:47 AM   #26
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Default Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

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Originally Posted by muckraker View Post
I would argue that ten people can write the same screenplay, beat for beat, without altering the dialogue even, and convey the story in a different voice. Having a good voice can be the difference between a great story poorly or competently executed and an all-around great script.
what mudraker is saying is that if you took different writers, say Shane Black, Jon Spaihts, James Cameron, and even any one of us, that you (strikeout) could (edited for clarity) have a different tone and would definitely have a different voice(edited for clarity) from each of them, even if they were writing the same beats.

this has nothing to do with the difference between screenplays and novels. btw, you can be poetic in screenplays and still be efficient, concise, and economic.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:37 AM   #27
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Default Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

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Isn't it obvious that changes in word choice and sentence structure in the Balls Out action/description lines would change the tone and voice of the piece.

You could change words while keeping every shot the way it is and the read would "sound" and feel different.
who's debating this? obviously that's true

but, it's not a sellable screenplay... it was on the blacklist along with Tarantino's Inglorious Bastards and other huge screenplays at the time and was never even optioned

are you saying that you don't understand that it was a troll and was never intended to be a spec script? ...this is what Spellman and Talbott have said this in interviews... on the screenplay it says, 'written by The Robotard 8000'

I'm so confused as to why would think any of these things
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:59 AM   #28
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Default Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

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what mudraker is saying is that if you took different writers, say Shane Black, Jon Spaihts, James Cameron, and even any one of us, that you would have a different tone from each of them even if they were writing the same beats.

this has nothing to do with the difference between screenplays and novels. btw, you can be peotic in screenplays and still be efficient, concise, and economic.
so the words I choose in the action lines will raise tension in the movie that's show in theaters?

No, it's the beats on the page that raise tension in the script

These are basic to do with being a screenwriter or playwrite .. are there times I would break the rules? sure... if there's a reason to do so... it's all about the pejorative and concept of the script

A screenwriter could conceive that they don't want to break up dialog on the page, and after the initial slugline, write a paragraph description of direction -- use only dialog until the next slug or scene

you could write a script about a deaf person and have no dialog and write sparingly, down the page to fit the concept of a screenplay format
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

I really am confused as to how a choice of words in the action lines can raise tension -- sure, it makes for a better read, but it's is all about the beat and scene writing

It's almost like you guys are in some Sci-Fi world and think AI is real and fighting for the concept of a human voice on a screenplay

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Originally Posted by AlexJones
We need to fight against the robotard 8000, we need add a human element to every screenplay! these movies are making our frogs gay!
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: How Tone and Voice = Writer's Style (attitude and personality)

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what mudraker is saying is that if you took different writers, say Shane Black, Jon Spaihts, James Cameron, and even any one of us, that you would have a different tone from each of them even if they were writing the same beats.
finalact4, your opinion is confusing me.

I thought muckracker was talking about the writer's overall voice, which includes tone, but you say muckracker was talking only specifically about tone.

Are you saying muckracker's point is that if you take 10 writers and give them a comedy premise/concept the tone of the material would end up being told with ten different attitudes, such as, farcical, dark, arrogant, formal, informal, etc.?
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