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Old 08-13-2019, 09:00 PM   #91
finalact4
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Default Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

saw it on a twitter thread, yep Nagy wants to return to packaging, saying it's legal right now and the WGA never objected for 40 years.

says she wants to change the direction because "the current leadership is affecting my [Nagy] ability to make a living."

huh? how is it preventing her from making a living?
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:46 PM   #92
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Default Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

It seems one side is saying more of the same will eventually work (which seems to have done nothing) and the other side is saying take something and get back to work.

I get both sides on paper.

Sometimes it does feel it's easy to yell at a woman. Nagy and that other lady take so much crap on twitter from writers. I don't think it's great overall. I think disagreements are great if we come together, but a lot of this fighting is coming off petty to me. Like some writers are more interested in impressing their friends than thinking about the union. Like they could just give their opinion instead of attacking others opinion. You know? Be direct.

Just from the little I understand and my feelings, it seems at the end of the day if we hold out we will lose the fight to the big 4 and packing fees. I don't see why they would give in. I think Craig Mazin was trying to say it today on his podcast with John, that's he's more worried what the big 4 agencies can become if they don't rep us anymore... like they are bad now and he doesn't see them going away, but getting in the way for writers if they aren't working for them. I see that.

It's not so cut and dry by any means.

It's like universal healthcare. It should be easy. We should all want it. But the agencies are the insurance companies making big bucks off the writers back and we can't just get rid of them so easily...
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:39 PM   #93
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Default Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

Ava Tramer has a good thread about her experience at the meet and greet that the Nagy slate had this past weekend (with responses by Phyllis to several of Ava's concerns):

https://twitter.com/avatramer/status...43075189608448

i think they largely speak for themselves (have not really helped Phyllis's cause with guild members, which was probably already a lost one even before Sunday)
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:02 AM   #94
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Default Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bono View Post
It seems one side is saying more of the same will eventually work (which seems to have done nothing) and the other side is saying take something and get back to work.
there are two distinct and different leadership goals:

1. current leadership wants to get rid of packaging and limit affiliate association. this is expected to lay the ground work for raising the average salaries of all writers, not just the elite and allow the middle-class writers access to higher, fairer wages. this is about everyone.

2. the opposition wants to give into packaging fees and get back to work, not sure when they stopped working. mind you this helps the top tier elite creators who are also producers the most because they can negotiate a percent of the deal, too. it does not help the staff writers whose salaries get driven down in the negotiations of the "big deal" so that the agency and producers make more money and the middle class staff writers make less and less.

and i've never heard of one showrunner that has demanded their staff be paid fairly or they won't do the deal. they have that power, and to my knowledge no one has used it.

when a showrunner says, i don't control what the studio or network pays the staff-- well, if you care that much about your staff being paid fairly, you can do something about it, before the deal is struck. even to the point of sharing a small part of your own huge payout if you really believe in the cause.

i don't get the "i can't do anything" mentality. the WGAs are in a standoff with the big four, the WGA is showing that writers CAN do something.

i do not believe giving in will help the most writers down the road.

Quote:
I get both sides on paper.

Sometimes it does feel it's easy to yell at a woman. Nagy and that other lady take so much crap on twitter from writers. I don't think it's great overall. I think disagreements are great if we come together, but a lot of this fighting is coming off petty to me. Like some writers are more interested in impressing their friends than thinking about the union. Like they could just give their opinion instead of attacking others opinion. You know? Be direct.
there's a lot at stake. it may seem petty, but the big picture is significant. the WGA has power against the big four today. other agencies are sitting back and waiting for this vote-- if the leadership remains intact, i think more mid-tier agencies will join the fight by signing a deal with the WGAs. once they do, they have the ability to become a big agency.

if the opposition wins, the WGA will have shown the big four that all they have to do, now and in the future, is wait this **** out. because writers are too weak to stand up for themselves.

this fight is about greed. unfair payment practices. and conflict of interest.

Quote:
Just from the little I understand and my feelings, it seems at the end of the day if we hold out we will lose the fight to the big 4 and packing fees. I don't see why they would give in. I think Craig Mazin was trying to say it today on his podcast with John, that's he's more worried what the big 4 agencies can become if they don't rep us anymore... like they are bad now and he doesn't see them going away, but getting in the way for writers if they aren't working for them. I see that.
the big four need access to material. if you don't have access to writers it doesn't matter how many directors or actors you have under you, it all starts with the writer. with the story. and unlike features, creators have a lot of control over their shows.
Quote:
It's not so cut and dry by any means.

It's like universal healthcare. It should be easy. We should all want it. But the agencies are the insurance companies making big bucks off the writers back and we can't just get rid of them so easily...
i don't know. i think writers can have agents that are not in conflict with their interests. it's a new way of doing business for the writers that had agents at the big four, and may take time to acclimate to the new landscape, but i think it can be done. because every-****ing-body else has been working without packaging just fine.

and this argument, "well now you'll have to pay your agent 10%," yeah, that's the deal and that means your agent will fight harder to increase their client's salary because it's directly tied to his, instead of getting his client the bare minimum to take a huge packaging fee where the agent makes at least the same, if not more, than the creator.

i'd really like to see writers win. all writers.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:38 AM   #95
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Default Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

Oh I only care about myself -- F those other writers! (cheeky monkey image)

I hope for the best and assume current leadership will win easily in the election.... then after 3 years of no agents we will settle for 3% more of nothing and the few writers who haven't had to quit the business to work at Trader Joes to get healthcare and pay rent will be so excited.

And of course the big established writers will still be setting up their projects like nothing changed the entire time, just saving 10%. In fact, even easier as no young writers in their way.

Good times everyone!
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:55 AM   #96
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Default Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bono View Post
Oh I only care about myself -- F those other writers! (cheeky monkey image)

I hope for the best and assume current leadership will win easily in the election.... then after 3 years of no agents we will settle for 3% more of nothing and the few writers who haven't had to quit the business to work at Trader Joes to get healthcare and pay rent will be so excited.

And of course the big established writers will still be setting up their projects like nothing changed the entire time, just saving 10%. In fact, even easier as no young writers in their way.

Good times everyone!
Ha! You're as cynical as me. Cheers!

I think the creative community made a big mistake way back when by allowing suits into the picture. Suits shouldn't have more control than creatives. It's friggin' bizarre.
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:26 AM   #97
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Default Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

Quote:
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It seems one side is saying more of the same will eventually work (which seems to have done nothing) and the other side is saying take something and get back to work.
I pretty firmly disagree with all of this, which will come as no surprise.

First of all, all labor actions are wars of attrition. You don't give up on a strike on day two because it's "more of the same (which seems to have done nothing)." It takes, what, six months minimum to close a studio deal? So agencies won't feel the loss of revenue for <checks math> six months at a minimum, right?

I don't think anyone in leadership (or anyone in membership who was paying the slightest attention) thought we'd start get meaningful movement from the Big Four until six-twelve months went by (for a variety of reasons). We're barely halfway there. Quitting now would be like giving up on going to the gym after four months because you don't look like Jason Statham yet.

And to say it "seems to have done nothing" is... wrong? Verve signed, Kaplan Stahler signed, and Paradigm was going to sign until the Nagy letter went out. After Paradigm signs, ICM won't be more than a few months away. So, it seems to have done not "nothing" but... everything it was intended to do so far? Like, we're pretty much exactly on pace to getting everything we want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bono View Post
Sometimes it does feel it's easy to yell at a woman. Nagy and that other lady take so much crap on twitter from writers. I don't think it's great overall. I think disagreements are great if we come together, but a lot of this fighting is coming off petty to me. Like some writers are more interested in impressing their friends than thinking about the union. Like they could just give their opinion instead of attacking others opinion. You know? Be direct.
Nagy and "that other lady" have been enormously dismissive and superior and insulting to writers in pretty much every interaction they've had with them. And it was especially fun for them to write woe-is-me letters to the trades about how some random low level writer was mean to them LESS THAN 24 HOURS AFTER THEY WERE PUBLICLY CALLING DAVID GOODMAN A FELON ON TWITTER.

I've noticed a couple of randos being jerks to them on twitter, but it's like 1% of the crap that Goodman (and Keyser!) get from the Nagy fans. And yet, I've never noticed Goodman or Keyser going around kvetching about how everyone is so mean to them. Like, ever.

If Phyllis and Ayelet want to have leadership positions in the Guild but can't the comparatively mild criticism they've received... oy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bono View Post
Just from the little I understand and my feelings, it seems at the end of the day if we hold out we will lose the fight to the big 4 and packing fees. I don't see why they would give in. I think Craig Mazin was trying to say it today on his podcast with John, that's he's more worried what the big 4 agencies can become if they don't rep us anymore... like they are bad now and he doesn't see them going away, but getting in the way for writers if they aren't working for them. I see that.
I don't think there can be any legitimate question that if we hold out we will win. You don't see why the Big 4 give in? Well for one thing, they're paying millions of dollars to client-less employees to sit around and stare out the window all day. They probably won't keep doing that forever! And when agents start to be laid off, they'll go to signatories or they'll start new signatory agencies.

And when THAT happens, the entire representation landscape will change.

The B4 don't want that. So they'll either sign or see their place in the pecking order massively diminish.

In terms of specifics: ICM is, by many metrics, barely bigger than Paradigm, and when Paradigm flips, ICM's lit business will be under threat. They will have to either sign or content themselves with being a much smaller agency, and if you know anything about Chris Silbermann, you know which of those choices he will make.

When ICM flips, UTA will almost certainly flip. I doubt WME will ever flip, but if they don't, CAA might sign the Code to absorb WME's entire lit business, which would be a MASSIVE win for the agency. Or CAA may hold out for a while longer.

But eventually, everyone will sign because... well what's the alternative? Stop being agencies and get into real estate? Because those are kinda the options. You can't be a big agency with no lit, unless you're WME (because your primary business is like bullriders and investment banking).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bono View Post
It's like universal healthcare. It should be easy. We should all want it. But the agencies are the insurance companies making big bucks off the writers back and we can't just get rid of them so easily...
But... we did!
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:52 AM   #98
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Default Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

the big four cancel their emmy parties...

https://deadline.com/2019/08/talent-...ff-1202667827/

interesting. i'm sure those are quite expensive.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:33 PM   #99
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Default Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

Quote:
Originally Posted by finalact4 View Post
the big four cancel their emmy parties...

https://deadline.com/2019/08/talent-...ff-1202667827/

interesting. i'm sure those are quite expensive.
Not surprising.

I remember the first year _AA canceled the Christmas party. I was like "Hmmm... sh!t's about to get super weird." Meaning CORPORATE... AF.

This is one time it would be interesting to still have the inside intel to know exactly what is being said during staff meetings. I'm convinced these meetings happen daily to discuss it and are contentious with agents like "Dude... WTF is going on? I have ZERO clients. I worked an entire career to build/service these people... not let them be poached... talk them down when they were thinking of leaving because so-and-so was in their ear. AN ENTIRE CAREER!" And leadership is like "We're gonna be fine. Don't worry. Solidarity. Your clients will come back. Promise." And the agents are like "Yeah, bruh? You sure? 'Cause I'm not convinced. And I'm getting hella antsy just sitting here playing on Twitter all day."

Are lit agents even going into the office? It's got to be a bit chaotic in there. Everyone on edge. Trust me, agents take it hard when someone big fires them.

Then again, all big4 agents are brainwashed, especially if they're lifers. So... no idea what's going on behind closed doors. Maybe all staff meetings begin with a Kool-Aid toast.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:55 PM   #100
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Default Re: First ATA agency breaks ranks

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I pretty firmly disagree with all of this, which will come as no surprise.

First of all, all labor actions are wars of attrition. You don't give up on a strike on day two because it's "more of the same (which seems to have done nothing)." It takes, what, six months minimum to close a studio deal? So agencies won't feel the loss of revenue for <checks math> six months at a minimum, right?

I don't think anyone in leadership (or anyone in membership who was paying the slightest attention) thought we'd start get meaningful movement from the Big Four until six-twelve months went by (for a variety of reasons). We're barely halfway there. Quitting now would be like giving up on going to the gym after four months because you don't look like Jason Statham yet.

And to say it "seems to have done nothing" is... wrong? Verve signed, Kaplan Stahler signed, and Paradigm was going to sign until the Nagy letter went out. After Paradigm signs, ICM won't be more than a few months away. So, it seems to have done not "nothing" but... everything it was intended to do so far? Like, we're pretty much exactly on pace to getting everything we want?



Nagy and "that other lady" have been enormously dismissive and superior and insulting to writers in pretty much every interaction they've had with them. And it was especially fun for them to write woe-is-me letters to the trades about how some random low level writer was mean to them LESS THAN 24 HOURS AFTER THEY WERE PUBLICLY CALLING DAVID GOODMAN A FELON ON TWITTER.

I've noticed a couple of randos being jerks to them on twitter, but it's like 1% of the crap that Goodman (and Keyser!) get from the Nagy fans. And yet, I've never noticed Goodman or Keyser going around kvetching about how everyone is so mean to them. Like, ever.

If Phyllis and Ayelet want to have leadership positions in the Guild but can't the comparatively mild criticism they've received... oy.



I don't think there can be any legitimate question that if we hold out we will win. You don't see why the Big 4 give in? Well for one thing, they're paying millions of dollars to client-less employees to sit around and stare out the window all day. They probably won't keep doing that forever! And when agents start to be laid off, they'll go to signatories or they'll start new signatory agencies.

And when THAT happens, the entire representation landscape will change.

The B4 don't want that. So they'll either sign or see their place in the pecking order massively diminish.

In terms of specifics: ICM is, by many metrics, barely bigger than Paradigm, and when Paradigm flips, ICM's lit business will be under threat. They will have to either sign or content themselves with being a much smaller agency, and if you know anything about Chris Silbermann, you know which of those choices he will make.

When ICM flips, UTA will almost certainly flip. I doubt WME will ever flip, but if they don't, CAA might sign the Code to absorb WME's entire lit business, which would be a MASSIVE win for the agency. Or CAA may hold out for a while longer.

But eventually, everyone will sign because... well what's the alternative? Stop being agencies and get into real estate? Because those are kinda the options. You can't be a big agency with no lit, unless you're WME (because your primary business is like bullriders and investment banking).



But... we did!
Stop using facts, being thoughtful, knowing how to spell names of people and just making me look bad because I just wanted to post without any knowledge or insight. Thanks a lot!

I don't know if I agree with anything I said either. Unlike you -- I didn't read it.

I hope you're right about it all...
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