CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

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  • #61
    Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

    Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
    How's the angry, vulgar trolling going?

    Finally realized you have no writing talent and nothing to say anyway, and just came in here to spin your wheels until they fly off?

    Enjoy!
    Dude who took shots at who first. Just because I don't like Syd Field doesn't mean I'm trolling. My bad. I guess you didn't take shots at me. I guess you just talked down to me about as if your age gave you some kind of clout because I didn't place the same importance as you did on books you read before I was even on this earth which pissed me off.

    Sorry for the personal insults. As long as we're strictly talking about our opinion of Syd Field I shoulda left it at that.

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    • #62
      Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

      [quote=Biohazard;791776]Black Sabbath single-handedly invented the largest, most diverse and prolific genre of music in the history of the entire world.
      quote]

      Cue the Zeppelin fans

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      • #63
        Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

        Well, this thread got kinda direct, then kinda rude, then finally just kinda...

        Chinatown is an amazing script.

        I think the best way to see how good the script is, is to look at the broad strokes of the whole picture. Like ATB said so eloquently: "You have to see how it all works TOGETHER. As a whole. Not as individual parts."

        But, I'm a logic and detail-oriented person, so I understand why some want tangible reasoning they can grab ahold of and dissect, so here's an easy one:

        On the first page (or it could be the second as I'm reading it through Imsdb scrolling feature) Curly has found out his wife has been cheating on him, right? He's sweating hard as he's thumbing through crude photographic evidence. A bead of sweat from his brow drops on Gittes' desk, unnoticed--

        --Moving on later, Gittes pauses to wipe the drop of sweat off his desk.

        And that, is how tight this script is. In between the reversal of Curly agreeing it's okay to let it go, then saying to Gittes' "I think I'll kill her" and Gittes' foreshadowing statement that "You have to be rich to kill somebody," Towne made room to pay off a setup: a small little bead of sweat on a desk...

        And that, IMHO, is why Chinatown is a masterpiece.
        life happens
        despite a few cracked pots-
        and random sunlight

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        • #64
          Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

          "You have to be rich to kill somebody." Great quote. Awesome.
          #writinginaStarbucks #re-thinkingmyexistence #notanotherweaklogline #thinkingwhatwouldWilldo

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          • #65
            Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

            Last edited by BattleDolphinZero; 03-08-2012, 10:45 PM.

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            • #66
              Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

              It's been a while since I've seen the film, so I can't comment, but there are definitely a bunch of "must read" literary masterpieces in fiction that a lot of people think are boring now, and this seems like a similar kind of situation. I remember some book critic saying something about how you're supposed to love Joyce even though most people hate him and can't get through Ulysses.

              Not saying this applies to this film, but there are works that have huge significance in terms of that they did to the art form, but that don't necessarily age well. For instance, I can appreciate what the French New Wave did to change cinema, and probably a lot of people watching films today don't necessarily realize what they owe to the New Wave, and yet I just can't seem to appreciate Goddard or Truffaut as much as I know I should...

              And I think it's getting harder and harder for some people, or generations, to be impressed with "older" films in a sense, given how action (namely editing and sound effects) has changed and how TV has changed. Hell, it's almost impossible for any spec writer to compete with TV in certain genres. Good luck writing a cop flick, for instance, TV audiences have seen it all, they're incredibly sophisticated, and there's practically no theatrical value for that kind of genre.

              But then you read Twain, or you get out an old Hitchcock, and it's all right there, it hasn't aged a bit, it's endured the test of time and all the tricks of the trade and it just blows your mind all those many years later.

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              • #67
                Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

                As classics go Chinatown's one of the best. Personally though, I prefer Seven (which to me) is the complete thriller. As for Towne IMHO, having watched his two big flicks recently, Shampoo steel feels socially relevant as a movie and seems to hold up better than Chinatown.

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                • #68
                  Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

                  Above all, it seems CHINATOWN rejects/defies the simple/easy "good vanquishes evil" Hollywood formula by allowing the forces of antagonism to "win".

                  That is what I keep reading.

                  "No matter how good a character is or how noble his or her intentions are, [the script] is careful to show how impossible it is for the [protagonist] to overcome or even escape the corruption that is so pervasive in the world of the film and the world itself."

                  Much more like real life, not reel life (sadly).

                  Maybe CHINATOWN was a product of its era?

                  PARALLAX VIEW was very similar in its theme/plot/ending.

                  So if DIE HARD were re-written this way, the hostages would die and Hans Gruber would escape with the cash.

                  John McClaine -- DESPITE HEROIC EFFORT -- would loose his wife, his kids, get all the blame, and be fired from the NYPD.

                  Maybe be all THAT would be part of Gruber's extended plan?

                  Again, far more like real life.

                  Evil often wins. Ugly truth. Perhaps this is what makes CHINATOWN brave and special.
                  Last edited by SNAFU; 03-09-2012, 08:57 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

                    This thread prompted me to re-watch the film for the umpteenth time, but with somebody who hadn't seen it before. She thought it was great, and was suitably shocked/moved by the "she's my daughter..." scene.

                    What a pity so often DD threads segue into insulting arguments between people who perhaps wouldn't get into it in a pub...
                    @MacBullitt

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                    • #70
                      Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

                      I love Chinatown. It's a great mystery, a great neo-noir, and both the script and the film are among my very favorites. But there's no getting around the fact that four elements make it somewhat less likely to appeal to relatively younger people. I say this as a professor who teaches film (and other media studies) to young people. I've even screened Chinatown in two different courses.

                      Will all relatively younger people respond in this way, and all relatively older people love it? Of course not. (I have students who have loved it, and I know older people who don't care for it much.) But in general, I would say the younger one is, the more problem he/she might be likely to have with:

                      1) The pacing of a 38 year-old script/film
                      2) The fact that it's a period script/film about weighty and serious subject matter, and it doesn't spoon-feed explanatory information about what's going on
                      3) The fact that the mystery is really complicated, and it doesn't spoon-feed what's going on
                      4) The fact that the ending is super-dark and tragic (and yes, Polanski had it changed from Towne's original script version). Besides Seven, what other films that relatively younger people tend to like today have super-dark endings?

                      For what it's worth, these are some of the specifics that in my view make Chinatown work so well as a script and/or a film, some of which have been noted already:

                      1) An interesting, not especially likeable main character, who changes a lot from the beginning to the very end (at first in a traditional way--I'm going to be a hero!--and then in a very unusual way, ultimately becoming even more resigned and cynical and empty than he was at the beginning)

                      2) A great villain: charming and unapologetic and frightening

                      3) Distinctive supporting characters with distinctive voices, from Curly to the records clerk to the knife-wielding guy Polanski played himself

                      4) A layered mystery that leaves you as confused and frustrated as the main character, but eventually rewards close attention with secrets and answers that make perfect sense

                      5) Lots of clever set-ups and payoffs (Example: "Bad for the glass.")

                      6) It has a point of view and some deep and resonant themes, which are never expressed in clunky, OTN ways

                      7) It's often very funny

                      8) It has a great score

                      9) The kinda-sorta based-on-a-true story elements about Los Angeles history are fascinating

                      10) Nicholson, Dunaway, and Huston are incredible

                      11) The "She's my sister AND my daughter" reveal scene is jaw-dropping and so very painful

                      12) It combines the personal/individual-level drama of these characters with the bigger story/themes in amazing, skillful ways. Example: Noah Cross rapes the land and rapes his daughter. Example: Gittes and the Chinatown "as little as possible" ethos play out in both his personal story with Evelyn, and in the bigger water/corruption/Noah Cross story. In other words, he should have known not to step in to these situations, because you might do more harm than good...

                      Just my two cents.

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                      • #71
                        Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

                        Originally posted by ChadStrohl View Post
                        Cue the Zeppelin fans
                        Zeppelin is less metal than Sir Lord Baltimore, who is also not metal.



                        And before you all race to Wikipedia, SLB was the first band ever described as "heavy metal" in relation to a musical genre. Their first album, Kingdom Come from 1970, is quite good. Zeppelin fans should check it out.

                        Sir Lord Baltimore - Master Heartache

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                        • #72
                          Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

                          Chinatown (1974)

                          Real short and to the point.
                          Hell of a Deal -- Political Film Blog

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                          • #73
                            Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

                            “He owns the cops!”

                            Yeah.

                            Try selling that on spec.

                            No bummer endings!

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                            • #74
                              Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

                              If you like mysteries, then you probably love Chinatown. To me, it is one of the best, most successful, and most atmospheric mysteries I've ever seen. I put it at the top of my list of favorite films and mysteries. The music was perfect. The story and plot lines were a little scary. It had a political element that worked. Jack Nicholson in his prime.

                              Over multiple viewings you also notice that it is a beautiful film. Beautiful clothes, art direction, cars, interiors, set decoration.

                              I was and still am totally absorbed. I've seen it I think at least 10 times.

                              It's a good mystery story. It's compelling. It pulls you right in like a good mystery should. Noirish, decoish, LA in the 30s -- again, I think the visual had something to do with it.

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                              • #75
                                Re: CHINATOWN -- masterpeice?

                                I haven't got the stomach to read this whole thread.
                                But I will tell you why I consider the film a masterpiece. And a film I watch at least once a year every year.

                                It's because of the way it makes me feel.
                                The emotional hit I get each time I watch it.
                                The sadness. The engagement. The confusion. The answers which are only temporal answers, but not, of course, the real answers.

                                That's the thing about greatness as opposed to 'high quality.' Greatness is ineffable.
                                Like Chinatown itself.

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