"Cloverfield"

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  • #61
    Re: "Cloverfield"

    Originally posted by tabula rasa View Post
    So, all of you who are telling us how much you enjoyed the CLOVERFIELD movie, how satisfying and complete and well-constructed you think the movie is ...

    Step back from how much you enjoyed watching the movie, as spectators ...

    Are you, as Writers and future Writers, telling us that this AS IT IS is how you'd WRITE the CLOVERFIELD screenplay? That if you had written it as a screenplay ... you'd be saying:

    "Aha, what's there up on the screen, that's all I would have put into it too. I wouldn't have added anything else to explain where the monster came from or what is. I wouldn't have felt the need to tell the audience whether the monster was killed or not. I would've had some of the characters exit in the helicopter (fate unknown) and others die huddled under the bridge without showing the Monster being attacked."
    If this was the first of a planned series of movies, then yes. That was a well-written, well executed movie. What a brilliant idea to stick with the limited POV of the video camera, and how refreshing that they stayed with that idea.

    If there is no plans for making a sequel, then the ending was unsatsifying, as I've written above.

    But I am convinced this is the first of many "cloverfield" movies.

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    • #62
      Re: "Cloverfield"

      Here's the message after the end credits. There's a lot of speculation as to what it actually implies. After hearing it, it's obvious.

      Judge for yourself - but be warned - it's NOT spoiler free.

      http://cloverfieldmessage.ytmnd.com/

      And reversed - http://boomp3.com/m/bd034dfca370
      @TerranceMulloy

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: "Cloverfield"

        Originally posted by tabula rasa View Post
        Are you, as Writers and future Writers, telling us that this AS IT IS is how you'd WRITE the CLOVERFIELD screenplay?
        Yes.

        The film is what it is.

        In the timeline of events, where the monster came from is irrelevant. The odd thing is that I didn't even think about whether or not the creature was destroyed in the end... it was a force of nature. Doesn't matter whether it was alive or dead when the narrative line ended.

        The framing device and intermittent echoes of the recorded-over tape was clever.

        I also thought that the length of the film was perfect. Twenty minutes of the get-acquainted with the characters and then an hour of them just trying to survive.

        Unlike some folks, I thought that the characters were well fleshed out... the soap opera reveal of everyone reacting to the news that the two best friends had hooked up back in April and it had f*cked up their friendship was a nice way to sketch who the supporting characters were themselves, by how they reacted to the news.

        At no point did I have any problem with the supposedly cheesy dialogue. With the world collapsing around their ears and everyone in some stage of shock and sensory overload, I wouldn't expect them to be making cognizant conversation. But then, I'm a big fan of understatement and loved exchanges like:

        "What's that?"
        "That's... a terrible thing."
        [...]
        "What's that?"
        "Um... that's another terrible thing."

        I enjoyed the humor, offering screams that would shift abruptly into laughter. "WHAAAA-HEH-HAH-HAH-HAH!

        Cool.

        And I thought that not only was Marlena a neat little unconventional character, but she was also amazingly hot.

        Those eyes...

        Actually, despite them being supposedly callow young NYC hipsters, I liked all the characters and didn't need any more arbitrary backstory loaded on to feel empathy for them. I sort of enjoyed the fill-in-the-backstory-yourself aspect of the characters.

        I sort of got the vibe that Marlena and Rob themselves had had a couple of drunken hookups in the past, but he was sort of a dick and, well...
        Last edited by Signal30; 01-20-2008, 10:44 AM.
        "Forget it, Jake. It's Hollywood."

        My YouTube channel.

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        • #64
          Re: "Cloverfield"

          Supposedly, Matt Reeves said a possible sequel could focus on a different camera during the same events. Which could be pretty awesome.

          The issue of "what is it?" and "where did it come from?" are not issues for me and although I don't think an explanation isn't necessary given the POV of the movie...it would be pretty cool if over a trilogy we were able to piece together seemingly useless information from 3 cameras into an answer. I would be into that. It wouldn't feel forces or out of place.

          SPOILER BELOW....

          There has actually been one character piece that has sort of haunted me for the past few days. I know I accused the film of having thin characters, but I think Rob had a very beautiful development. When his brother dies he tells his bro's girlfriend that at least he knew she loved him. And here is Rob struggling with the fact that he's in love with Beth and isn't pursuing it. I think that hearing him say he loves her at the end is a bit of a triumph for the character and a really beautiful, tragic ending.

          Ele...

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          • #65
            Re: "Cloverfield"

            Weekend ESTIMATES of $41 million.

            Pretty damn impressive.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: "Cloverfield"

              Originally posted by elephant1978 View Post
              Supposedly, Matt Reeves said a possible sequel could focus on a different camera during the same events. Which could be pretty awesome.

              The issue of "what is it?" and "where did it come from?" are not issues for me and although I don't think an explanation isn't necessary given the POV of the movie...it would be pretty cool if over a trilogy we were able to piece together seemingly useless information from 3 cameras into an answer. I would be into that. It wouldn't feel forces or out of place.

              SPOILER BELOW....

              There has actually been one character piece that has sort of haunted me for the past few days. I know I accused the film of having thin characters, but I think Rob had a very beautiful development. When his brother dies he tells his bro's girlfriend that at least he knew she loved him. And here is Rob struggling with the fact that he's in love with Beth and isn't pursuing it. I think that hearing him say he loves her at the end is a bit of a triumph for the character and a really beautiful, tragic ending.

              Ele...
              I agree, Ele. I think having a trilogy to that effect would be an incredible idea. And the character development was, what it was, and that wasn't horrible.

              Before going in I had a bad feeling that the hand held camera was going to be some silly gimicky thing. It wasn't that way at all. I'm not sure that I've ever felt like part of the movie as much as this before. If the end comes in some form or other, we are all sheep; not action heroes. Something that's depressing to think of, but gritty and realistic. This film did a really good job of enforcing that idea. Though, we all do have our own personal goals, and accomplishing those goals makes us a hero. Sorry, I'm getting cheesy.

              Anyway, it was enjoyable, different, and woozy. Worth the small amount of time to go see.
              Joan: What does the "T" stand for?
              Jack: Trustworthy.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: "Cloverfield"

                A sequel from another camera... sounds good to me.

                If we get explanation, it just can't be forced. And that's what it would be like if anything wasn't written in. So, as a writer (to answer someone's above question), I would not have changed that. I don't think there is a need to explain. There is only a few explanations anyway... and I am fine assuming or letting the audience assume. I don't want to see anything spoon fed, especially when the film is intended to be written in such a realistic way. If I had written it, I wouldn't have changed it.

                And I felt we also learned more than enough about the characters really. I might have written more with Beth, though really, it was more about Rob and as Ele said above... I felt they did a great job with him.

                Really, I'm glad the movie is the way it was and as an audience member and a writer, I thought it was pretty damn good.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: "Cloverfield"

                  One thing that has yet to be mentioned is how this movie has alerted the American male to the existence of this.....

                  http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/07565...hint=nm0951148
                  "Entertaining the world is a full time, up at dawn, never ending siege, the likes of which you will never fully understand."
                  Billy Thrilly 2005

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: "Cloverfield"

                    So, I'm hearing that you think this ONE movie needs 'sequels.'

                    My position from principle (worth two cents, now now now on clearance sale for two cents!) is: unless a movie is a "stands alone" thing, then it is ... defective and lacking in some story aspect.

                    Now, I know there's this thing called LOTR, and Harry Potter, etc etc ... and I'd gladly admit that those are ONE HUGE STORY that were so complex and rich that they needed multiple movies and sequels to tell them (and they already existed as huge books and everyone seeing one movie already knew "This is just Part One, it won't all be wrapped up yet"

                    There's a big difference between "Part One" versus "sequel" (As examples, each Indiana Jones movies stands alone, each Die Hard stands alone, each Alien stands alone) ... the sequels add richness and story arc, no doubt, but in ALIEN -- even not knowing my "where did the monster come from?" -- there's enough story there that we don't need it.

                    That's just our differing tastes, I'm not arguing tastes here. I'm not actually arguing anything ... just expressing the differing POV. Ten people agreeing on anything ... where's the POV that smacks lips then suggests the purple kool-aid needs just a little more sugar?!

                    CLOVERFIELD (I'd think) needs to be considered as "stand alone" (and please correct me brutally if CLOVERFIELD already exists as some multi-part graphic novel etc. I know NOTHING about it except the one movie; but I'd hold that that's what most movie goers see it as, too. There's a cut off point where a movie needs to be accessable to the general audience, not just insiders and pre-packaged fans)

                    Sequels? Sequels?! If you tell enough story the first time -- a stand alone don't need no steenkin' seeeequels!

                    Would we all write a screenplay that needs a sequel?!

                    But ... yeah, I hear yas, you all liked the first one so much, it's a stand alone.

                    I just didn't expect all the talk about sequels. I'd be afraid to try to sell a spec with "Well, we'll fix it in the sequel." Sweetie, don't go all GOLDEN COMPASS on us, they'd say. Make the first one work without needing a sequel.

                    Obviously, I'll agree the first one worked as box office. I just lament there wasn't more story to it.

                    Again, it's just taste vs taste. I expected JJ Abrams to hit me with some LOSTian complexity and depth ... They had some extra minutes to play with too.

                    I surrender. No screenwriter wanna-be is on safe ground, complaining about Box Office success, right? "Aw gee though, I know theirs made huge $$$ ... but mine tells where the monster came from!"

                    The suits wouldn't show me the door -- they'd show me the sixth storey window.
                    sigpic
                    "As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world -
                    that is the myth of the atomic age - as in being able to remake ourselves."
                    -Mahatma Gandhi.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: "Cloverfield"

                      Tab,

                      I totally understand the desire for more story, and to answer your earlier question about us as writers vs. us as fans, I'd have to say that as a writer, I was awed by this movie.

                      Not because it wove the most complex story in the world - it didn't - but because it wove its story so well within the constraints of the genre.

                      One of our many jobs as screenwriters is to master the different restrictions and requirements of different genres. Master them so well that we actually can bend them from time to time. And this movie did that.

                      It took a pretty tired genre (monster/disaster) and added a fresh restriction (that this was all captured real-time on one camera) and then within that restriction did an awesome job of telling the story.

                      Some of the most elegant storytelling in the world comes from stories with the most vigilant adherance to the rules of POV. (I think that's a quote from one of Rossio's columns.) Often times I get notes, where a non-writer says, "I want to know this" - or - "shouldn't we know that?" and they often suggest a "fix" that totally violates POV (and is ultimately a weak storytelling choice). So the challenge for us "writers" (who are supposed to know better), is to make it work within the established POV framework.

                      That's a feat which I think Cloverfield handled exceptionally well. Sure, there would have been ways to push the envelope and have more TV coverage, or to have the military know more, but even though those might have satisfied the audience a little more, in my opinion they would have been cinematic cheats, which would have ultimately distanced the viewer from the authentic emotional experience of Hud & Rob & co.

                      And although I'm normally in the "I hate movies that require a sequel!" camp, there's something about the way this one ended that was both a perfect (touching, albeit tragic) ending to this stand-alone story, and also an awesome hook to make me hungry for more.

                      So to sum up - the fan in me was amazed at the viceral experience, and the writer in me was wowed (and cowed) by the deft mastery of a pretty un-pioneered genre.

                      And at the end of the day, the fan and the writer in me are the same guy.

                      Cheers,

                      Adam
                      "I've got vision up the butt, so just go with it!" - Dewey Finn, School of Rock

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                      • #71
                        Re: "Cloverfield"

                        I hadn't even considered the need for a sequel, in that I felt everything fell into place for me the way it was. The film at it's heart was about Rob and Beth, not the monster.

                        But since it's been brought up...

                        While this may sound like rationalizing or doubletalk, I wouldn't consider any ensuing film that follows this as a sequel, but more of an expansion of the mythos. Cloverfield in that regard serves as the opening credits for what story arc follows.

                        That said, I think it would be a bad idea to continue with the one camera approach (and seriously, I want that camera... it was a trooper!). Wherever the story goes from here, open it up to three POVs.

                        [SPOILERS]

                        With that in mind, my least favorite character was Lily... but her storyline can be picked up and perhaps the aspects of her that I disliked (control freak suddenly thrust into a world completely out of her control) can adapt and evolve into an interesting character.

                        And you know... I don't think Jason is dead. Down the road, he may take back Manhattan.
                        "Forget it, Jake. It's Hollywood."

                        My YouTube channel.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: "Cloverfield"

                          I thought it was a real good movie. I found the start of it, the initial attack, very gripping and had me on the edge of my seat actually feeling a sense of dread in a way. Maybe that's because I live in New York City and all and it was very 9/11, but in a good way (ha, "9/11 in a good way.")

                          Some problems I noticed:

                          SPOILERS....

                          1) How do you walk from Spring St to 59th that fast? Turned the camera off, is my guess to this problem. However, not knowing where you are? If you walk the 4/5/6 line from Spring to 59th you'll walk by stations. They would've walked through 51st St station and realize 59 was right ahead of them.

                          2) Helicopter crash, them and camera A-OK? That's my one big problem.


                          I really liked it though.

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                          • #73
                            Re: "Cloverfield"

                            Oly explanation IMO about helicopter is that it didn't freefall. It fell fast, but I assume the blades were still moving... allowing it to fall slower than if it were a plane crash.

                            Still, a bit ridiculous.

                            And sequels, I don't think it is needed. The movie works fine stand alone. I just like the monster and the world they set up... wouldn't mind seeing it again from a different position.

                            Dunno if I'd want it done in another first person POV though. When I left I thought it'd be great to do a sequel in a more traditional fashion. It could then allow more freedom, more explanation, etc...

                            Regardless though, a sequel is not needed at all. It is welcome though because I really enjoyed Cloverfield.

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                            • #74
                              Re: "Cloverfield"

                              Jeez tabula rasa get off your high horse. It's dropping pretentious apples all over my carpet.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: "Cloverfield"

                                Originally posted by CutteRug View Post
                                Tab,

                                I totally understand the desire for more story, and to answer your earlier question about us as writers vs. us as fans, I'd have to say that as a writer, I was awed by this movie.

                                Not because it wove the most complex story in the world - it didn't - but because it wove its story so well within the constraints of the genre.

                                One of our many jobs as screenwriters is to master the different restrictions and requirements of different genres. Master them so well that we actually can bend them from time to time. And this movie did that
                                Well said Adam. You're totally right my friend.

                                I think Tabula's missed the entire point of the film. There's no need to make it more complex. It works well, because it's not. It's a simple story, told effectively and resourcefully. And as Ele implied in an earlier post - it basically stops a few inches short of being a modern classic.
                                @TerranceMulloy

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