Backlash against the pros

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  • #76
    Re: Backlash against the pros

    No harm, no foul. I guess I got defensive because I don't read through threads very often, yet whenever I do I often see consultants getting bashed.

    I don't even share half of my own industry experience or contacts on here. So you might be surprised who I know and don't know.

    You ever want to grab coffee, I will be happy to share more. Peace.
    NOTES / COVERAGE
    15,000+ Screenplays
    [email protected]

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    • #77
      Re: Backlash against the pros

      I'm repped by Jeff Gorin at WME. And Andrew Deane at Industry Entertainment.

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      • #78
        Re: Backlash against the pros

        Originally posted by EvilRbt View Post
        No harm, no foul. I guess I got defensive because I don't read through threads very often, yet whenever I do I often see consultants getting bashed.

        I don't even share half of my own industry experience or contacts on here. So you might be surprised who I know and don't know.

        You ever want to grab coffee, I will be happy to share more. Peace.
        I'd be happy to... let's do this! [email protected].

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Backlash against the pros

          Originally posted by Derek Haas View Post
          Jeff says you offer a fair price at 70 bones and I like Jeff a lot. Now that you have your back up a bit, I do think you're honest but that you honestly promote an unnecessary service.
          Just because it's unnecessary to you doesn't mean it's unnecessary. People who don't have managers and agents and friends who are pro writers need quality feedback too. And yeah, one way to get that feedback is to network online or move to LA and become an assistant. Another way is to find someone like Andrew who once served as a gatekeeper and pay 70 bucks. There are lots of roads in this business.

          Originally posted by Derek Haas View Post
          Let me ask you this straight-up... I know Martin Spenser a bit... if I call Martin Spenser at CAA and say... "Hey, did Andrew help place a client with you?" will he say, "yes, he did. Andrew has my ear." If so, dude, I commend you and you might be the first I've ever heard of actually having the ear of a mover and shaker.
          I don't think you remember how hard it can be to get read at the beginning of your career--especially if you don't want to start at the bottom of the food chain. The manager with whom I signed doesn't even open queries. Period. So Andrew's referral meant everything.

          All of which, by the way, isn't even the point. I was paying for feedback, I thought 70 bucks was a more-than-fair price, and everything else was an unexpected bonus.

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          • #80
            Re: Backlash against the pros

            Originally posted by Derek Haas View Post
            I do disagree with BDZ. I think you can get where you want in Hollywood if you have talent and work hard without ever paying a consultant.
            I agree. And here are some numbers to back up my belief.

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            • #81
              Re: Backlash against the pros

              Originally posted by mariot View Post
              Every person is different. This is how it affects me.

              1%

              No professional screenwriter wants to read the work of unknown writers because they assume it will suck.

              Every time a studio/agency reader opens a script from an unknown they assume it will suck.

              God, am I one of the delusional people who think they might one day have a real chance at making a living as a screenwriter?

              Wait, if the 99% of bad scripts are bad because people are writing about little deaf girls and I don't write about little deaf girls maybe I really could be in that 1%.

              Approximately 20%

              Before knowing it was approximately 20%:

              Wow, this guy reads a lot of scripts and look at all these positive things he has to say. I keep hearing how the majority of scripts by new writers suck. Doesn't sound like this guy thinks I suck. Maybe I could really have a shot at this career.

              Wait, this seems too positive. Look at all these positive adjectives. Does this really mean anything or is this just sugar coating. Maybe everyone gets lots of positive adjectives so they don't get discouraged.

              Wait, maybe I am really close, maybe it really does just need a little more work.

              Wait, I think it needs a lot more work than he does. How can that be?

              After knowing it was approximately 20%

              ****, now I have no idea at all where this really stands. My script isn't one of the 1% that doesn't completely suck. 20% got some kind of consider. What were the other 80% like? Were they really, really bad scripts about little deaf girls?

              Should I even be pursuing this as a profession?

              I understand. But, after all the feedback, your closing question is really one that can only be answered by you.

              What Brian said above, I'd say go with that and eventually you will be able to answer it.
              Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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              • #82
                Re: Backlash against the pros

                Originally posted by Derek Haas View Post
                I'd be happy to... let's do this! [email protected].
                Cool. I'll be in touch.
                NOTES / COVERAGE
                15,000+ Screenplays
                [email protected]

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Backlash against the pros

                  Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                  I understand. But, after all the feedback, your closing question is really one that can only be answered by you.

                  What Brian said above, I'd say go with that and eventually you will be able to answer it.
                  Unfortunately, unless we make our own films, we don't get to decide whether we're good enough to be a working screenwriter.

                  Could you imagine someone going to a law firm and saying "Hey, I'd like that lawyer job?" And when he's asked about his qualifications, he says, "I stock fishsticks at Walmart." And then he doesn't understand why he's thrown out.

                  From what I'm hearing, most aspiring screenwriters are as delusional as that.

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                  • #84
                    Re: Backlash against the pros

                    Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                    Derek Hass: "I do disagree with BDZ. I think you can get where you want in Hollywood if you have talent and work hard without ever paying a consultant."

                    I agree. And here are some numbers to back up my belief.
                    As I said, nobody's arguing with that point... there are lots of different routes. Some people go to film school. Some people intern in the industry. Some people work in a video store. Some people read lots and lots of scripts and then pay someone for feedback--which, I should point out, is chicken-feed compared to the price of film school or opportunity cost of spending several years as an assistant.

                    If you guys want to bash the consultants who charge big fees for career strategy sessions or seminars on story, I'm all aboard. But different people have different life priorities and educate themselves in different ways... why bother focusing your fire on a service that other writers obviously find valuable?

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                    • #85
                      Re: Backlash against the pros

                      I humbly ditto what Mr. Earbrass said on Page 8. Andrew's service is great for unrepped writers. His notes and suggestions are excellent.

                      SMASH TO:

                      BLACK

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                      • #86
                        Re: Backlash against the pros

                        Originally posted by MrEarbrass View Post
                        If you guys want to bash the consultants who charge big fees for career strategy sessions or seminars on story, I'm all aboard. But different people have different life priorities and educate themselves in different ways... why bother focusing your fire on a service that other writers obviously find valuable?
                        I've supported Andrew multiple times over the last year, including in this thread. Derek's going out to coffee to get to know him and learn more about his business. Who's focusing any fire?

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                        • #87
                          Re: Backlash against the pros

                          Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                          I agree. And here are some numbers to back up my belief.
                          I think Gallup might have an issue with your technique and sample size.

                          Just sayin'.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Backlash against the pros

                            Originally posted by mariot View Post
                            Unfortunately, unless we make our own films, we don't get to decide whether we're good enough to be a working screenwriter.
                            I think we do. Because we control the quality of our work. Not the person who gives us feedback. We also need to develop brutal objectivity about our own skills and potential (maybe we need a thread on objectivity). This requires a level of emotional detachment yet - at the same time - a passion for pushing ourselves harder.

                            With that said -- it's still entirely possible to evolve into a excellent screenwriter and never, ever break in.

                            In any creative endeavor (art, music, writing), there are many different variables at play, in addition to talent, when reaching for the golden "success" ring.

                            History is filled with great talents who died before their worth was recognized, and odds are many more were never recognized, at all.

                            There are no guarantees, mariot.

                            Trying to calculate all the variables and leverage them in your favor will drive ya' nutty. That's why I referred you to this post:


                            Originally posted by Brian Koppelman View Post
                            The only central idea that I want to get across is this: calculate less. Find something that you really want to write about, that excites you, fascinates you, keeps you in its thrall. I still approach ALL originals that way. I never think about the market when I am deciding what to write. Only about the story I have to tell. And then I work it as hard and as passionately as I can. And that's the way I did it at the very beginning too. Really. I know this is counter to a ton of what you hear. But careers that last longest often start with much less calculation and much more heart.
                            Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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                            • #89
                              Re: Backlash against the pros

                              Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                              Trying to calculate all the variables and leverage them in your favor will drive ya' nutty.
                              Very true. I'm an analytical person, but it's important to understand when to put that away and focus your energy solely into your creation. To me, the odds are the greatest myth of all, because there are simply too many variables. Assuming equal degrees of talent is one of them. There are quite a few people here on DDP that have beaten those odds, probably in part because they never considered them.

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                              • #90
                                Re: Backlash against the pros

                                Originally posted by TheCleaner View Post
                                I think Gallup might have an issue with your technique and sample size.

                                Just sayin'.
                                Zing! You totally got me. If only I had some something in that thread like "I'm not saying it's exhaustive or statistically perfect, but it's a pretty good group of writers I went to."

                                Oh, I did.

                                So tiring.

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