Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

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  • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

    There was one particular place where the writer showed up in me. The first scene where Kylo stops the laser blast. I thought, oh, he should have had storm troopers hold Ming the Merciless in front of that before he let it go. Then I said, stop it writer. Enjoy the dang movie.

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    • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

      Originally posted by Yaso View Post
      Screenwriting is the hardest most complex art form to master in the world today.
      I'd argue the opposite but that's a different debate.

      As for Force Awakens I'll agree to disagree. Most fans, be it casual or hardcore, have loved it. So did I. I'm sorry that some of you didn't but I'm sure we'll all get over it.
      Last edited by TheConnorNoden; 12-28-2015, 06:33 AM.

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      • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

        Originally posted by TheConnorNoden View Post
        I'd argue the opposite but that's a different debate.
        If you wanted to debate it, you could open a new thread.

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        • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

          Originally posted by Ven View Post

          However, we have to be careful with stories. They are very, very powerful teaching tools. On the one hand, I've heard several girls and women tell me that they admired Rey because she was "strong" and "very brave". That's outstanding. Makes me get a bit teary-eyed, to be honest, that these girls can have a character role model like that.

          On the other hand, I unfortunately felt like Rey didn't really earn her successes as the film moved along. What does that tell us? What is the subtext to her story?

          I really liked Rey's character, but I'm afraid that the lack of effort and failure and her general Mary Sueness ultimately sends the wrong message.
          Idk. This is soupy ground. Maybe there's something to all of this, but I guess I'm just not feeling or seeing it. I look back on some of my favorite movies that appear to be/do the same things. Dutch just happens to be the baddest, most innovative man on the planet to fight and kill an interstellar hunter with advanced skills and technology. John is an everyman that just so happens to be the most tenacious cop on the planet to take on a building full of heavily armed and presumably well trained mercenaries. Flash is a quarterback on an alien world for heaven's sake (not to say I doubt Tom Brady could in fact save every one of us if provoked, lol). Mythology is rife with uncommon heroism from out of nowhere against ridiculous odds. Sometimes a story doesn't need to be grounded in realism. Sometimes it has to be larger than life, bigger than what we know, not something that has to be struggled against, but something to aspire to. But again, it's in the eye of the beholder.

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          • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

            Originally posted by Yaso View Post
            If you wanted to debate it, you could open a new thread.
            I doubt that debate would actually become a good resource of information so best to leave it. I doubt many would be on my side of the fence on that particular issue anyway so I'd be screaming into the void.

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            • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

              I saw it and thought it was pretty weak on story, characters and plot. It looked good, but that was to be expected.

              The most enjoyable bit was the first act on Jakku and Daisy, who is quite cute. BB8 was also great.

              It was pretty clear after the first act though that this was going nowhere at light speed. Overall the characters were mostly reactive and the antagonists were weak. Kylo Ren in particular was such a let down, if you don't have a strong antagonist you don't have much, and don't get me started on his motivations.

              Hey JJ, how about a mentor for Rey, how about everyone not suddenly being able to instantly beat Kylo? I mean this isn't rocket science you would think.

              The Death Star Mark 3 as a plot was more predictable than the prequels, I mean honestly, who cared by that point, where was the drama? We all knew exactly what would happen.

              It would have been better without the geriatrics from the OT in it as well, they added nothing and were distracting, not to mention all looking prehistoric (bar Luke). Talk about undoing a nice happy ending from ROTJ for no reason, and the drama from Han's death was totally wasted.

              Design was, it felt like it added nothing new to the universe, just rehashing of tie-fighters and old concept art, it's like they literally did not have a single original idea.

              All in all, pretty much exactly what I expected of JJ, slickly produced politically correct nostalgia porn. He's someone I don't rate much higher than Michael Bay.

              I'm disappointed in Kasdan though, thought he knew better. I'm astonished any writer can defend this and am amazed the free pass this film has gotten so far. To me it was all akin to watching Jurassic World - a bubble gum blockbuster and nothing more.
              Last edited by Captain Jack Sparrow; 12-28-2015, 08:42 PM.

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              • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                Originally posted by Captain Jack Sparrow View Post
                Design was, it felt like it added nothing new to the universe, just rehashing of tie-fighters and old concept art, it's like they literally did not have a single original idea.
                YES! As a model maker, I find this personally distressing. The original trilogy had the best, most creative model makers / prop people / FX staff on the planet. Every film would dazzle us with some fresh, never before seen technology / spectacle. A spectacle that would become iconic for decades -- Death Star trench run, Battle of Hoth, Space battle of Endor.

                What did VII give us? The Falcon flying through a broken Star Destroyer? Ugh!!! At least James Cameron gave us an epic, never before seen spectacle in Avatar.
                I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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                • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                  Creativity begets creativity.

                  Even John Williams couldn't find inspiration from the paint-by-numbers story he was given.

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                  • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                    Now that the thrill of an actual new (arguably) STAR WARS film is cresting, the critics reviews are getting a bit harsher as the actual screenwriting gets analyzed. As everyone has pointed out, actual character development felt cursory. I really felt that the film couldn't stand on Its own with anyone who was not already familiar with the series. (Of course, that's a darn small percentage of the population)
                    Probably my biggest complaint is that the one major moment we all should have been gasping and been in shock just didn't have that impact.
                    I think critics were just all relieved there were no Jar-Jar Binks moments...

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                    • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                      Originally posted by Yaso View Post
                      Screenwriting is the hardest most complex art form to master in the world today. Fortunately for the movie industry, it's not all about the story.
                      I debated whether to respond to this, but I just gotta jump in there. Slow down for a second. Film attracts, from film school through industry, essentially underachievers and people of average (at best) intelligence. I mean no offense, I both went to film school and work in film & video. This isn't just my anecdotal experience (though my experience does confirm this), it's documented by IQ, and standardized tests correlated to department or major. I understand that on a screenwriting forum, of all places, there is going to be a tremendous amount of respect for the art of screenwriting, but that said you have to be able to have some perspective, and take it down a notch. The medium is not art, and the industry is packed with fools. If average people are paying $10-16 bucks and universally coming out loving a film, I think you have to consider what it did right, not dismiss it.

                      I understand there is a craft to it, and I have been taught that craft. And I recognize at times Star Wars ignored the teachings of that craft. But there are times when things without technical brilliance still have merit, and in the case of Force Awakens, that is the case.

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                      • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                        Originally posted by FoxHound View Post
                        YES! As a model maker, I find this personally distressing. The original trilogy had the best, most creative model makers / prop people / FX staff on the planet. Every film would dazzle us with some fresh, never before seen technology / spectacle. A spectacle that would become iconic for decades -- Death Star trench run, Battle of Hoth, Space battle of Endor.

                        What did VII give us? The Falcon flying through a broken Star Destroyer? Ugh!!! At least James Cameron gave us an epic, never before seen spectacle in Avatar.
                        It's just amazing how much they got right on the OT, the amount of iconic designs is staggering, and they are not just iconic because the films are famous, they are seriously impressive designs that utilise clear forms and shapes and create amazing contrast in scenes (e.g rebel hardware vs imperial). It's something that was missing in the prequels.

                        I thought for this film they would build on the OT base but they played it so safe, they seemed afraid to mess with anything, be it plot or designs.

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                        • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                          Originally posted by Captain Jack Sparrow View Post
                          they seemed afraid to mess with anything, be it plot or designs.
                          They did create a new 2-person TIE fighter, just because it was needed for one very poorly written scene, despite the fact that no other TIE fighters in the film were 2-seaters and no other TIE fighters in any of the films were 2-seaters.

                          Does that count for innovation?

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                          • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                            Originally posted by Ven View Post
                            They did create a new 2-person TIE fighter, just because it was needed for one very poorly written scene, despite the fact that no other TIE fighters in the film were 2-seaters and no other TIE fighters in any of the films were 2-seaters.

                            Does that count for innovation?
                            Maybe it was a two-seat trainer
                            I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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                            • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                              Originally posted by thirdman23 View Post
                              I debated whether to respond to this, but I just gotta jump in there(...)
                              I'm not sure what you are trying to say. The film industry attracts people of a lesser IQ? Compared to what exactly?

                              What does "slowing down" or "taking it down a notch" mean in this context?

                              "The medium is not art, and the industry is packed with fools".

                              That's certainly oversimplifying things.

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                              • Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens -contains spoilers

                                Wow. Almost every review on IMDB is giving this film one star. Like literally 85%. I know IMDB reviewers tend to be overly harsh, but this is ridiculous.

                                One thing I have noticed as of late: critics seem to be giving films with great cinematics (and weak plots / characters) unusually high scores. I mean Gravity was a visual wonder and all, but the plot was her hopping from one orbital object to the next. And Mad Max was basically one long chase scene with zero displacement. I mean, Fury Road's score is better than Die Hard on Rotten Tomatoes. And Gravity is just 0.2 behind 2001: A Space Odyssey. What the heck?

                                Honestly, if Avatar had been released this year, it would be the best reviewed film of all time, take 14 Oscars home, and knock Citizen Kane off the best film of all time list.
                                I'm never wrong. Reality is just stubborn.

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