Advice on character reaction description

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  • #16
    Re: Advice on character reaction description

    Jason: I know you asked a specific question about formatting the dialogue for Peter's reaction but, just throwing this out there, I'm wondering ...

    Depending on how well it's established, in previous pages, that Peter is certain David is dead, maybe you can shock Peter through action instead of a phone call. .

    Maybe Peter catches a glimpse of David in a cab driving by, or in a store. Or out hiking on a trail. Something less static than a phone call from his enemy. Something more threatening to Peter.

    Now, I'm not a pro. However, one thing I learned the hard way -- if something I've written keeps nagging at me, no matter how much I try to fix it, it can be a sign to take an entirely different route.

    Hope this helps.
    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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    • #17
      Re: Advice on character reaction description

      @sc111 - Thank you on the advice. I will think about it, but the bottom line is that some type of communication needs to happen between the two. We'll see what I come up with
      ''Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.''

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      • #18
        Re: Advice on character reaction description

        Originally posted by JasonRaven View Post
        @Centos - I see your point. I'm being dramatic in some of the scenes where, in my mind, it is a dramatic moment, but in other cases where the scene is more like on edge of a dramatic moment, I tend to point it out any way I can that where is the line that shouldn't be crossed for the scene to have an optimal effect. I don't want the scene to be either over the top or too mellow.

        @JeffLowell - Thank you. To me, clarity is like the first commandment. I'm working so hard on making my script ''flow'' easily for the reader.
        If my advice conflicts with Jeff Lowell's advice just refer to my signature and go with someone who actually sells scripts. (Hint, that's not me.)
        STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I'm a wannabe, take whatever I write with a huge grain of salt.

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        • #19
          Re: Advice on character reaction description

          Originally posted by JasonRaven View Post
          Another advice I got a few months ago was that I mustn't cross over into the director's role in the whole thing which makes perfect sense to me.
          That's bad advice. You don't have to "cross over into the director's role," but if you choose to and it makes the read better, there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing so.

          Read a bunch of black list scripts. See what bullshit all these rules are. Be free and enjoy.

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          • #20
            Re: Advice on character reaction description

            Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
            Clarity is the key. Brevity is close behind. A lot of suggestions you've received are either unclear or overwritten, IMO.

            There's nothing wrong with saying a character is shocked, if that's what he is. I can't really pitch on your example, without knowing what happens next, but you might even use "shocked" as the parenthetical if it's not clear from context. Or maybe you don't need anything if his reaction shows his state of mind.

            Amen. People go to all kinds of extremes to avoid breaking some stupid rule. If you say "he's shocked," guess what, an actor can take it from there. That's what they do. No need to write five lines to describe something that everybody understands in one word


            Plus, if I were an actor, I would hate to be told exactly what expression I should have and what I should do with my hands.


            Having said that, if you want your guy to be so shocked that he falters backwards, trips over the dog, falls into the chimney, burns half his body and sets the house on fire, then by all means, that's something you want to describe.

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            • #21
              Re: Advice on character reaction description

              Originally posted by TigerFang View Post
              "For example, I have a scene in which a guy receives a phone call from an enemy who he thought was dead. His reaction is obviously - shock.-

              Peter
              Hello?

              David (V.O.)
              Hello, Peter.

              Peter's eyes widen, he moves the handset away from him, draws in his breath and holds it as he stares at the handset.

              The idea is to show some action or reaction, not to tell us how the character feels. Show, don't tell. Feelings cannot be filmed by a movie camera, but actions and reactions generated by feelings can be filmed by a movie camera. See? Go for it.
              I've heard this general idea over and over since I got into screenwriting - show don't tell, feelings can't be filmed, etc.

              Feelings can in fact be filmed. If I say "John is happy", the reader easily pictures what that looks like if they already know the character.

              The description you wrote above is good if it's necessary to the story, character, or even to just show the significance of that moment. It's often the case that simply saying, "Peter is shocked" isn't enough to engage the reader or tell the story in the way you're hoping.

              That said, I don't need to waste a bunch of white space explaining in detail his facial expressions, what he's staring at, etc., for the sole purpose of avoiding the use of "shocked" in fear that feelings can't be filmed, or that I'm going to be telling instead of showing.

              In my opinion, explaining facial expressions or the drawing of breath is telling the reader much more than "Shocked" is anyway. You're telling the actor to not only be shocked, but HOW to be shocked. It's much more limiting so there better be a reason.

              My advice would be to just write what you think conveys your vision/idea most effectively in the fewest words possible, instead of worrying about silly rules like "show, don't tell." If someone is preoccupied with the fact you used a "feeling" instead of focusing on the actual story, then I wouldn't want them handling my idea anyway.

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              • #22
                Re: Advice on character reaction description

                Originally posted by RyPa View Post
                That said, I don't need to waste a bunch of white space explaining in detail his facial expressions, what he's staring at, etc., for the sole purpose of avoiding the use of "shocked" in fear that feelings can't be filmed, or that I'm going to be telling instead of showing.

                In my opinion, explaining facial expressions or the drawing of breath is telling the reader much more than "Shocked" is anyway. You're telling the actor to not only be shocked, but HOW to be shocked. It's much more limiting so there better be a reason.

                Is John happy? Or does he jump in the air, pump his fists, kiss a stranger, and run screaming out the door? Write something interesting.

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                • #23
                  Re: Advice on character reaction description

                  Originally posted by Ven View Post
                  Is John happy? Or does he jump in the air, pump his fists, kiss a stranger, and run screaming out the door? Write something interesting.
                  Not sure why you only quoted two of my paragraphs when the sentence right before what you quoted said, "It's often the case that simply saying, "Peter is shocked" isn't enough to engage the reader or tell the story in the way you're hoping."

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                  • #24
                    Re: Advice on character reaction description

                    Originally posted by RyPa View Post
                    silly rules like "show, don't tell."
                    In my opinion, the “Show, Don’t Tell” advice is one of the best pieces of advice a person writing in a visual medium could receive, where this principle has been proven to be effective in immersing and engaging a reader/viewer in a writer’s story, though one must keep in mind, it’s intended to be used as a guideline and not an unbreakable screenwriting rule.

                    JasonRaven says a reviewer told him it was wrong to use the “tell” form “he is shocked” and the reviewer went on to suggest that he write out a visual image demonstrating this shock. JasonRaven says in his screenplay “only their face shows disappointment, shock, surprise, anger as the situations they are in don’t let them show it externally on a different level…”

                    JasonRaven, if the situation calls for the reaction shot, “he is shocked,” then use it. It’s perfectly filmable and acceptable where an actor can portray this emotional moment.

                    As writers, I suggest that we strive to find that perfect balance where we not constantly micro manage the actors and trust that they know their character, and for us as writers to engage the reader in a compelling and emotional story.

                    Sometimes in my scripts, where I needed a simple reaction shot, I would just write “Bob looks puzzled,” “Bob is happy,” etc. instead of getting it across with visual images using action, facial and/or body expressions, etc.

                    But also there are situations that call for me to write out a visual image in order to enhance the read/viewing emotionally, be it to evoke sadness, happiness, love, funny gag, whatever.

                    For example, “Cast Away” has a come back from the dead moment. (Note: writing the scene from my memory of the film. This is not from the script. The online drafts dated 1998 and 2000 didn’t include this scene.)

                    The following scene is from after many years believing her (Kelly's) boyfriend, Tom Hank’s character “Chuck,” is dead, she learns he’s alive.

                    INT. KITCHEN – DAY

                    Kelly puts away groceries. The phone rings.

                    KELLY
                    (into phone)
                    Hello.

                    As she listens, an expression of shock comes to her face. Her body wobbles. She faints.

                    END SCENE

                    Just having “She looks shocked” might have worked fine, but I believe in this situation it was important to show the audience a deeper emotional impact upon hearing Chuck is alive. Chuck was driven to survive because of his love for this girl.
                    Last edited by JoeNYC; 10-05-2018, 01:28 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Advice on character reaction description

                      Thank you very much on your advice, JoeNYC.

                      Also, your example in the end was the proof to me that I chose the right path in figuring out when to write ''shocked'' and when to explain ''shocked'' rather than writing it. Choosing either/or in most instances has been the biggest problem for me for a while, but many people helped me, your comment has just sealed it for me
                      ''Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.''

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Advice on character reaction description

                        Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                        As she listens, an expression of shock comes to her face. Her body wobbles. She faints.
                        But is that not both show AND tell? (I'm joking.)

                        There seems to be some confusion about the advice "show, don't tell". That advice applies to the characters 'showing' the audience in the movie, but NOT to the screenwriter 'telling' the script reader on the page.

                        The characters should 'show' themselves in behaviour that best suits their character and situation - be that visually conspicuous or not - and the writer should 'tell' that to reader using the best wording they can.
                        Know this: I'm a lazy amateur, so trust not a word what I write.
                        "The ugly can be beautiful. The pretty, never." ~ Oscar Wilde

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                        • #27
                          Re: Advice on character reaction description

                          I think someone mentioned this, but if you reflect on your own body language/ reactions in a situation, you can find many ways to potently describe an emotion externally. In this one, I'd probably put:

                          "Peter stops breathing.-

                          There are lots of doable options (grips his forehead, dries his palms, chokes back water), but imagining what the character is trying to do to CONTROL his/her reactions is often more useful than the reaction itself - if it's brief.

                          And sometimes just cheating a bit is ok (if you make everything else sing).
                          https://actbreakdown.com

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                          • #28
                            Re: Advice on character reaction description

                            INT. KITCHEN - DAY

                            Kelly puts away groceries. The phone rings.

                            KELLY
                            (into phone)
                            Hello.

                            As she listens, an expression of shock comes to her face. Her body wobbles. She ...

                            PHRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP PAAAAAPHHHHH PHHHHHHHHAAAAAAPPPPP

                            END SCENE

                            Post lap.

                            PPHHHHHHRAAAAAAAAAAAP PA PA PAP

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                            • #29
                              Re: Advice on character reaction description

                              Originally posted by JasonRaven View Post
                              Hi guys.

                              I haven't been here for a while, had some personal issues that unfortunately put my writing on hold etc., but I finally came back to it a few days ago and I'm currently finishing my first ever spec movie script that, hopefully, I will be able to send out and see it on the big screen one day.

                              My script is actually finished from beginning to the end, I went through 3 detailed re-reads already and corrected, shaped up and polished what needed correcting, shaping up and polishing. I'm really beating myself up over making this script ''bug-free'', taking my time, but at the same time, trying not to take too much time... I'm sure most, if not all of you understand exactly where I'm coming from.

                              Pretty much the only thing left for me to do is to take care of the character reaction descriptions which I'm really having a lot of trouble with, I don't know why. I really need your help.

                              The problem is, I don't really know the right approach to describing my characters' reactions in basically all key scenes. For example, I have a scene in which a guy receives a phone call from an enemy who he thought was dead. His reaction is obviously - shock. So, I wrote:

                              Peter
                              Hello?

                              David (V.O.)
                              Hello Peter.

                              Peter recognizes David's voice and is shocked.

                              But I got an advice a few months ago that it's wrong and how I mustn't use expressions, but gesticulations and such. I didn't get it, I still don't. How can I describe a reaction of a guy's face turning white in shock differently than saying ''he is shocked''? I keep seeing those same scenes in movies where the camera zoomes in on a character's face just staring into nothing which clearly shows that character is shocked. How to describe those kinds of moments in a correct way if the way I'm doing it now is wrong? I don't get it and it's really frustrating being told it's a huge mistake and having no alternative to correct it with.

                              I have TONS of scenes like that where the characters are surprised, angry, disappointed, shocked, but the thing is, their reaction isn't hyperactive, they don't say anything or do anything, only their face shows disappointment, shock, surprise, anger as the situations they are in don't let them show it externally on a different level... you know what I'm saying? How to describe a shocked face expression if saying ''Peter is shocked'' is wrong? I don't know how to describe reactions that are in itself solely static facial reactions.

                              How I have it now is that I just wrote ''Peter is petrified'' or ''David's face full of disappointment''. I would really appreciate help with this, there is no way I can finish the script without overcoming the description problem of these scenes.
                              Okay, I've been teaching a course recently and this very issue has come up and this has been my advice.

                              Other than saying, in respect to what goes on on someone's face - he smiles, he frowns, his face remains impassive or blank -- don't try to describe people's expressions. This is a waste of words.

                              Saying -- he has a shocked expression or -- his face is full of fear -- isn't earning you any more points than simply saying -- he's shocked or -- he's afraid.


                              What is the reader supposed to think -- that he's shocked and afraid but somehow it's all just inside and he's not showing anything?

                              Being afraid describe a way of behaving -- a whole set of reactions and expressions the specifics of which are best left to the imagination of the reader and the creativity of the actor -- unless you can come up with some specific *action* that's unique and interesting.

                              So if your character is doing something while he's answering the phone -- maybe he's putting a needle down on an old LP -- and then he hears the voice -- and scccratttch... the needle scrapes along the record.

                              And then, as he listens to the voice of his old enemy, we can hear the sound of a piece of the recording playing over and over -- skip, scratch, skip, scratch... in the background, as he listens.

                              That's not a description, not finding a way to describe the fear or the shock in someone's face -- it's finding an "action" that externalizes what's going on in his head -- things were going fine -- everything was okay -- then the guy calls and -- scrraattch! That's what he's feeling. That's an external metaphor for his emotion.

                              That's what you're looking for.

                              NMS

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                              • #30
                                Re: Advice on character reaction description

                                Originally posted by nmstevens View Post
                                Other than saying, in respect to what goes on on someone's face - he smiles, he frowns, his face remains impassive or blank -- don't try to describe people's expressions. This is a waste of words.

                                Saying -- he has a shocked expression or -- his face is full of fear -- isn't earning you any more points than simply saying -- he's shocked or -- he's afraid.
                                JoeNYC is shocked.

                                No, I want to “show” my shockness about what nmstevens stated about character reactions visually with a facial expression:

                                JoeNYC stares at his computer screen, jaw dropped.

                                nmstevens, I am –- soooo -- shocked because in the past you’ve stated a complete opposite opinion on character reactions, which I’ll get to later.

                                nmstevens, in your post you stress “action” to get across character emotion, which I completely agree with. In my VOICE (NARRATIVE DESCRIPTION) thread, I posted a romance scene from my script. I didn’t use the on-the-nose dialogue, “I love you,” or the on-the-nose description, “They are in love.” I used “actions” to express a powerful love.

                                nmstevens, the problem that I’m having with your post is that you don’t allow any leeway for creativity, or to take into account a writer’s personal taste and choice by stating your edict of: “don’t try to describe people’s expressions.”

                                You go on and say, “Saying –- he has a shocked expression or –- his face is full of fear –- isn’t earning you any more points than saying –- he’s shocked or –- he’s afraid.”

                                Oh, come on, I loved my “Cast Away” example. If I was a newbie, you’re edict would have crushed me.

                                “As she listens, an expression of shock comes to her face.”

                                I wanted to express a nuance by showing, as she listens, her going from a normal emotion to a shocked emotion instead of just saying, “She is shocked.”

                                You say a writer writing description like this won’t get him any extra points then by just saying “she is shocked,” but if it’s his personal taste and choice and there isn’t any clarity or overwriting issues, it’s okay. This type of description won’t be the cause of a writer’s script being rejected, but, in my opinion, there is a possibility that done right, it could enhance the read, contrary to what you believe with the “more points” statement.

                                nmstevens, I believe your intentions was not to make a blanket, absolute edict, anyway I hope not. Overall, “actions” is the best way to express character emotions, but there are situations where a writer may want to use facial and/or body expressions, such as, rolls his eyes, shrugs, etc.

                                Why is this?

                                Well, nmstevens, in the past you’ve explained “why” very intelligently, so I’ll quote you. Six years ago, in 2012, there was a thread called “Writing Comedic Reactions,” where members said they would leave the comedic reaction up to the actor instead of using words to write out a description.

                                You entered the thread and stated the following:

                                “And often, the reaction *is* the punchline and you need to describe it. When I find myself in that situation, I’ll often simply put unspoken words or unheard thoughts into the description:

                                He stands watching the approaching behemoth. He rolls his eyes –- oh, well, another bad day in the city.”

                                nmstevens continues with:

                                “…if you’re trying to describe a visual moment using words, if that moment depends upon actors or shots or a particular reading of a line –- or whatever it is, you can’t just leave it up to someone else to do, what needs to be done. But unless you find the right words to describe the moment, the expression, the proper delivery of the line –- to convey that moment the way it needs to be conveyed –- the reader won’t get what’s in your head. There just won’t *be* a joke (or a scare, or a tear) unless you figure out how to convey where the joke is.”

                                This excellent advise is not just for comedic reactions. It could be applied toward Horror, Tragedy, etc.

                                For those who would like to view the full thread click on the following link:

                                http://www.messageboard.donedealpro....edic+reactions

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