When to stop

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  • #61
    Re: When to stop

    I thought he just meant "enough, already." As in, this is bordering on self-indulgent. 1) Be prolific and not precious, and 2) Keep writing until you don't want to anymore

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    • #62
      Re: When to stop

      Enough what? Someone asked me a question, I answered it. Jeff then stated [per quoting a different post] that agents don't work the way I posited, I rebutted that they do. Don't like the convo, turn the channel. I mean?

      Btw - I'm a native son, too. Born and raised, Hollywood. Very few of us natives.
      DOPE CITY

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      • #63
        Re: When to stop

        Obviously, you'll eventually have to try something else, after you exhaust every route with the script you're trying to push right now.

        But I wouldn't get too discouraged by the rejection. The list of projects that did extremely well that were initially passed on left and right is very long. PULP FICTION was passed on by every studio. RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK was passed on by every studio until it got its last chance at Paramount. MAD MEN, blah blah blah, etc. etc. etc.

        And the idiots who passed on those projects had years of experience under their belts and had risen to development executive level or higher. The idiots you might be getting to read your stuff still have severe acne problems and have likely never worked on a single movie or show.

        "If I had turned down every picture I greenlit, and greenlit every picture I turned down, I'd have the same number of hits and flops.-
        - David Picker

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        • #64
          Re: When to stop

          Originally posted by surftatboy View Post
          Enough what? Someone asked me a question, I answered it. Jeff then stated [per quoting a different post] that agents don't work the way I posited, I rebutted that they do. Don't like the convo, turn the channel. I mean?

          Btw - I'm a native son, too. Born and raised, Hollywood. Very few of us natives.
          Not you, a quip at this tedious thread. Tedious, because the same user asked the same question just a few months ago.

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          • #65
            Re: When to stop

            Originally posted by nativeson View Post
            Not you, a quip at this tedious thread. Tedious, because the same user asked the same question just a few months ago.
            Ahh, gotcha. Groundhog day.
            DOPE CITY

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            • #66
              Re: When to stop

              I deleted because life's too short. Now you're hinting that you had a side gig as one of the most successful agents or managers in history, and you quit it to be an unagented writer who has a producer attached to a spec. And apparently that spec is at your former agency, which means that while you were an A list rep, you had an agent for your full time job as a writer?

              It doesn't make any sense on any level, but since you're refusing to provide any kind of specificity, this is an exercise in futility.

              Hopefully people who are basing decisions on your advice will take that advice with a tiny grain of salt.

              And look, maybe I'm off base. Feel free to pm me with details, and I'll post a huge mea culpa.

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              • #67
                Re: When to stop

                Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                I deleted because life's too short. Now you're hinting that you had a side gig as one of the most successful agents or managers in history
                Huh? You lost me on that one. Nowhere did I say nor imply that I was one of the most successful agents or managers in history. You invented that out of thin air.

                Originally posted by JeffLowell View Post
                ...and you quit it to be an unagented writer who has a producer attached to a spec. And apparently that spec is at your former agency, which means that while you were an A list rep, you had an agent for your full time job as a writer?
                Not the story. You're inventing beats that don't exist. A-list? Where are you getting this stuff?: I was originally signed to an agency [a big]. I left to start a company with a manager [was I a manager? Not exactly. But kinda. I was essentially a ghost rep (i.e. commissions were split 50/50). I helped make the deals, give notes on scripts, developed strategies to deal with the studios etc. You wanna ask me about that, cool. But, no, there's no specific job title, as it was an off the cuff company]. That company is currently on an indefinite hiatus. Thus, I went back to writing. Landed a producer sans agent through my manager. That producer is repped by a big [the same big I split from a couple years previous] who took the lead on it, as they wish to please said big client. As I said, I currently have a manager that is dealing with my side of things.

                It doesn't make any sense on any level
                That's a strange thing to say whilst jumping to all sorts of conclusions that aren't exactly logical. It makes plenty of sense if YOU WERE THERE.

                Hopefully people who are basing decisions on your advice will take that advice with a tiny grain of salt.
                As they should with everyone's advice. Take mine or don't.

                And look, maybe I'm off base. Feel free to pm me with details, and I'll post a huge mea culpa.
                Yep, you're off base. But something tells me this isn't about a mea culpa. What do I get out of this deal? I wish to remain anonymous. Despite not being anyone important.

                *My POV is that of a writer who spent two years on the other side of the fence. The biggest deal we made was for 3 mil over the course of one day. It was a whirlwind deal [you surely read about it]. The film got made [you likely saw it]. The film was a recent hit. That fact in no way claims A-List status. The project was A-List, sure, but there's a marked difference between the two. Does that insight give me a unique perspective? Hell yeah it does. Do I know everything? Hell no. This business makes zero sense 99% of every day. If you knew exactly how that deal went down [and I assure you the trades weren't privy] you would likely feel that it both makes perfect sense and was also mind boggling how it could happen that way. (whether or not you believe me is irrelevant… the film was already released. The bonus checks already cashed. And now I'm back to the grind of writing. The other side is far more fun if you're getting that lucky. Then again, if I sold my own sh*t for millions I'd probably beg to differ.)
                Last edited by surftatboy; 02-16-2016, 09:53 PM.
                DOPE CITY

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                • #68
                  Re: When to stop

                  And by the way -- The most interesting part about that particular deal is the way a big agency [partners in particular] attempted to pressure us to take a crap deal for the writer client. This is arguably an A-list client now. But this client has, to this day, ZERO knowledge of how close they came to getting fvcked on the deal via bullshit Hollywood politics. THAT is an insight that is startling as a writer myself. Made me wonder how many writers have gotten fvcked on deals to make an A-list super star actor happy while having no knowledge of it, meanwhile their agents popping on the phone to tell them they got a "great deal." That's what it really boiled down to: Standing up for the writer or folding to political pressure from an 800 pound gorilla of an agency trying to leverage this and that against you.

                  To speculate about it online is one thing. To be in the middle of it receiving call after call telling you this and that person is going to be furious while 1.5 million is on the table, with a ticking clock, is quite another. It also leaves me severely distrusting of agents. So, no, at this time I couldn't give a flying flip about having an agent. I. Do. Not. Want. One.

                  Go 'head and tell me this doesn't make sense. It's what happened.
                  DOPE CITY

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                  • #69
                    Re: When to stop

                    Originally posted by figment
                    I wish people would stop giving people they know nothing about with scripts they know nothing about this kind of flippant advice. It's ridiculous. And actually damaging depending on where someone is in the process of their own work quality.

                    It's the exact thing, if you are a new-ish writer, that you want to hear! Yes, more queries! Whoo-hoo. When the opposite might be more helpful to your project.

                    Others gave great advice about how long things take, general perseverance, working on other projects, and putting aside this work and coming back to it at a later date to see what can be improved. You'll be surprised what you see that you didn't see before.

                    ---

                    surftaboy -- Jeff is a professional writer with a 20 year career. When he posts, people pay attention because his posts reflect his knowledge, and they know who he is.

                    If you are wondering about the push-back you are receiving, it is because, so far, what you are doing is making every thread about yourself -- regardless of the OP. No one knows who you are, so it comes off as campy, flippant, and manic -- wanting everyone to give your experiences high regard, when the majority of your comments don't reflect the nose-to-the-grindstone actual WORK of writing that is this businesses truth. Chill a little.

                    1) I responded to Jeff's comment (before he deleted it). Not interested in taking his fans.

                    2) I gave that particular advice based on the fact that the OP appears to have zero interest in ceasing his submissions. So, if you MUST go out [with a script that probably isn't ready], best to not burn your name/script with higher ups. Burning your name with assistants isn't damaging AND you don't clog the spec market. My guess is that the script isn't ready, but when has that ever stopped fledgling writers?

                    3) I'm told this is the 2nd post by the OP re this script. He'll continue to send it out no matter what anyone says.


                    And by the way -- you wanna talk about damaging. What the heck is with the query forum on this site? People anonymously passing known agents and managers emails back and forth, script sight unseen. You wanna talk about damaging, start the thread to discuss that. I already stated above that querying, in my view, is a terrible strategy -- for that reason -- one's script has likely not been vetted yet.

                    The best advice is: to never send your script to anyone before it's been vetted by someone legit -- and I don't mean an off-grid contest no manager or agent has ever heard of [despite vetting your script you'll still get several passes. And they aren't all "cool, but it's not for us" some are "we fvcking hated it!" Though your rep states it was a pass, or doesn't mention passes at all, depending on your temperament.]. Funny how almost no fledgling writer heeds that advice. However, it's what I do with my own scripts, how 'bout you?
                    Last edited by surftatboy; 02-17-2016, 08:13 AM.
                    DOPE CITY

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                    • #70
                      Re: When to stop

                      Originally posted by figment
                      No one knows who you are, so it comes off as campy, flippant, and manic.
                      Yeah, I agree, but that's the joy of anonymous writers on a message board... people can come in and randomly dogtown the place.

                      After a while, it's easy to filter through the b.s.. It's a shame for new writers though, sponging in new info, who haven't yet developed a bullshit detector.
                      Last edited by Dustin Taylor; 02-17-2016, 10:21 AM. Reason: wb

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                      • #71
                        Re: When to stop

                        Originally posted by Dustin Taylor View Post
                        Yeah, I agree, but that's the joy of anonymous writers on a message board.
                        Agreed. I refuse to be on good behavior here. If I'm breaking a rule, let me know. I'm not trying to win an award for most liked or most fans, I'm simply sharing my opinion anonymously so I can be honest. You don't like my opinion, turn the channel.

                        Also, don't demand to know what my creed is if you don't want to know. Pretty simple really.

                        Don't worry, I'll bounce soon and leave you to your regularly scheduled programming. Just taking some time out between projects to chit chat.
                        DOPE CITY

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                        • #72
                          Re: When to stop

                          Originally posted by Dustin Taylor View Post
                          people can come in and randomly dogtown the place.
                          Oops, you added that after the fact. What does that mean.

                          After a while, it's easy to filter through the b.s.. It's a shame for new writers though, sponging in new info, who haven't yet developed a bullshit detector.
                          Feel free to inbox me quoting what I've said that's bullshit if the conjecture is veering too far off topic. Which I think it has.
                          Last edited by surftatboy; 02-17-2016, 10:28 AM.
                          DOPE CITY

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                          • #73
                            Re: When to stop

                            Originally posted by surftatboy View Post
                            The best advice is: to never send your script to anyone before it's been vetted by someone legit -- and I don't mean an off-grid contest no manager or agent has ever heard of [despite vetting your script you'll still get several passes. And they aren't all "cool, but it's not for us" some are "we fvcking hated it!" Though your rep states it was a pass, or doesn't mention passes at all, depending on your temperament.]. Funny how almost no fledgling writer heeds that advice. However, it's what I do with my own scripts, how 'bout you?
                            I kinda feel like this needs to be written in lights at the top of the forums. You can't depends on your friends or even peer writers at the same career level. You need someone who has no good reason to compliment your work. If they say it's strong, you're onto something.

                            Originally posted by worldandmore View Post
                            ^^ THIS RIGHT HERE! I totally agree on the basis of evaluating your own work. Even though you may pay for coverage and edits and such, it's always you who has the best option on your screenplay.
                            This I disagree with. Maybe it's just me, but I'd say I'm never the person who has the best opinion of my screenplays. Like I said in another thread, I can't read through something I've written without wanting to change something. If I was going on my own opinion, nothing would ever get done.

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                            • #74
                              Re: When to stop

                              Originally posted by juunit View Post
                              Obviously, you'll eventually have to try something else, after you exhaust every route with the script you're trying to push right now.

                              But I wouldn't get too discouraged by the rejection. The list of projects that did extremely well that were initially passed on left and right is very long. PULP FICTION was passed on by every studio. RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK was passed on by every studio until it got its last chance at Paramount. MAD MEN, blah blah blah, etc. etc. etc.

                              And the idiots who passed on those projects had years of experience under their belts and had risen to development executive level or higher. The idiots you might be getting to read your stuff still have severe acne problems and have likely never worked on a single movie or show.

                              "If I had turned down every picture I greenlit, and greenlit every picture I turned down, I'd have the same number of hits and flops.-
                              - David Picker
                              Thank you for your advice ! I now realize it's important to try as hard as you can to sell, but if your script doesn't go anywhere, put it in a drawer and keep on writing and try hard with your next script. Don't stop with every disappointment either, keep going, revise, and make it better.

                              Originally posted by nativeson View Post
                              Not you, a quip at this tedious thread. Tedious, because the same user asked the same question just a few months ago.
                              I asked a similar question yes when I was under experienced to this site, but I have gotten a lot of wonderful advice, and I am thankful for it. I'm sorry it's tedious to you, you can also ignore if you don't like it. Sorry again.

                              Originally posted by surftatboy View Post
                              2) I gave that particular advice based on the fact that the OP appears to have zero interest in ceasing his submissions. So, if you MUST go out [with a script that probably isn't ready], best to not burn your name/script with higher ups. Burning your name with assistants isn't damaging AND you don't clog the spec market. My guess is that the script isn't ready, but when has that ever stopped fledgling writers?

                              3) I'm told this is the 2nd post by the OP re this script. He'll continue to send it out no matter what anyone says.
                              Actually I take everyone's advice into mind and weigh the different outcomes. I was honestly very close to dropping this whole project, but I found a couple of emails to send out to, so hopefully some will go through. But yes, I don't want to stop submissions because I want this project to succeed, but if it get's to a place where I feel like I can't move on, I will stop. I'm not going to "continue to send it out no matter what anyone says." I will take into account other people's advice, and stop when I need to.
                              Like I said above, it was a similar question, but different than this thread. But the replies had me review my query and my logline, and that helped a ton. This thread is getting many other types of replies, with all mostly good advice, which I am happy to take into account. My script has been reviewed and revised many times, and I'm 99% (can never be 100%) sure that my script is ready. I am still going to work on it and make sure that it is perfect, even after I stop trying to sell it.
                              Just because you're trash doesn't mean you can't do amazing things - it's called a trash CAN not a trash cannot

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