Is this OK?

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  • #16
    Re: Is this OK?

    Originally posted by SBdeb View Post
    Yes, but it's the EXPRESSION on her face I want to convey. I don't even necessarily want her to smile. Like, maybe when you taste the chili of your competitor and you're afraid that yes, it's better than yours and you kind of nod your head, and your expression says "yeah, I'm afraid so --it is good."
    But that's not what you would REALLY think. You'd think "Damn it, I just lost this competition. I'd love to dump this bowl on their head."

    All of that can be acted/filmed sans dialogue.

    Then when the character is asked what they think, it's. "Not bad... I've had better."

    The audience gets every beat of the scene.
    DOPE CITY

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    • #17
      Re: Is this OK?

      Originally posted by SBdeb View Post
      Yes, but it's the EXPRESSION on her face I want to convey. I don't even necessarily want her to smile. Like, maybe when you taste the chili of your competitor and you're afraid that yes, it's better than yours and you kind of nod your head, and your expression says "yeah, I'm afraid so --it is good."
      'yes, it's damn good' DOES NOT equal "yeah, I'm afraid so --it is good. *I'm afraid so* implies reticence, whereas *damn good* is forthright and almost eager (which could also be shown with raised eyebrows, widened eyes, or a descriptor indicating excitement in her eyes, BTW). So, first you need to decide exactly what you want her reaction to be

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      • #18
        Re: Is this OK?

        Originally posted by nativeson View Post

        I would go with: Mia grins, nods "yes."
        Depends. Is this a 'moment' a 'turn' for your character or is it not? If it's a moment/turn it's not hammering it hard enough. Needs more. If it's not a moment, agreed "nods yes" is plenty.

        Meaning, if this is a moment/turn designed for your character to begin questioning her past life I'm not going to decipher that off "Nods yes." I nod yes if the dude at Starbucks asks me if I want cream in my coffee.

        i.e. Ordinary vs extraordinary. Which beat is it?
        DOPE CITY

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        • #19
          Re: Is this OK?

          Originally posted by SBdeb View Post
          Yes, but it's the EXPRESSION on her face I want to convey. I don't even necessarily want her to smile. Like, maybe when you taste the chili of your competitor and you're afraid that yes, it's better than yours and you kind of nod your head, and your expression says "yeah, I'm afraid so --it is good."

          her grin says it all, she's screwed and knows it.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Is this OK?

            All these suggestions are helpful... thanks.

            Here was a snippet of a scene where the reader didn't like what I did. It was just a quick moment, but fairly pivotal, wherein a guy tells the girl that he's quitting the job where they both work (because he has fallen for her and she doesn't feel the same, or even know he has feelings for her.) He hems and haws and she fills in the space with her own plausible explanation (oh, you found a better job). He realizes that he can't tell her the truth, and is relieved to have an "out."

            ARI: You see [blah blah blah]....

            MIA:"Oh, so you mean [blah blah blah]?"

            This is not what he meant at all, but Mia doesn't see his fleeting, ironic smile, the momentary relief, as he pauses and decides to go with it.

            ARI: "Yeah. Exactly."

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Is this OK?

              Originally posted by SBdeb View Post
              All these suggestions are helpful... thanks.

              Here was a snippet of a scene where the reader didn't like what I did. It was just a quick moment, but fairly pivotal, wherein a guy tells the girl that he's quitting the job where they both work (because he has fallen for her and she doesn't feel the same, or even know he has feelings for her.) He hems and haws and she fills in the space with her own plausible explanation (oh, you found a better job). He realizes that he can't tell her the truth, and is relieved to have an "out."

              ARI: You see [blah blah blah]....

              MIA:"Oh, so you mean [blah blah blah]?"

              This is not what he meant at all, but Mia doesn't see his fleeting, ironic smile, the momentary relief, as he pauses and decides to go with it.

              ARI: "Yeah. Exactly."
              Just a thought, but...

              Re: emotion, consider gestures when there's a clear plot progression or during action (reaction), and consider using dialogue (to convey emotion) in a situation like this, when there's emotional flux, but not much else visually going on. And nuanced, layered dialogue, of course.

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              • #22
                Re: Is this OK?

                Originally posted by SBdeb View Post
                This is not what he meant at all, but Mia doesn't see his fleeting, ironic smile, the momentary relief, as he pauses and decides to go with it.
                In my opinion, you can get away with these every now and then, but it doesn't take very long for too many of them to get irksome.

                I think you could build the scene (or previously) in a way we already know what he "really means", so we'll know without being told that's "not what he meant at all".

                Just my 2 cents.
                "I just couldn't live in a world without me."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Is this OK?

                  And then...

                  There's subtext. As alluded to above, if we've already established he likes her, then just about anything he says in this scene will have an alternate meaning (subtext). You can play with that

                  Re: unfilmables, in certain universal situations, you *can* say how a character feels (usually in a word), because we can *see* it on their face as we read, and the actor can interpret exactly how they prefer to convey it. These are usually situations we've all been in, or can appreciate. This isn't that tricky, and only becomes an issue if you try to do it when there is no clear universal situation.


                  Ex*: a scene where someone fleeing a henchman pushes a tray of drinks on him as he escapes.

                  In the next shot the fugitive passes through another room when --

                  *"The soaked henchman enters, pissed."
                  Last edited by nativeson; 03-08-2016, 01:00 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Is this OK?

                    Originally posted by nativeson View Post
                    And then...

                    There's subtext. As alluded to above, if we've already established he likes her, then just about anything he says in this scene will have an alternate meaning (subtext). You can play with that

                    A great reminder for me to ensure that I set up things like this properly to support later scenes.

                    Thanks [to all] for your insight.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Is this OK?

                      Originally posted by SBdeb View Post
                      For instance, this, from When Harry Met Sally:
                      Sally looks over at Harry. Who am I stuck in this car with?
                      Writing becomes a hell of a lot more fun once you feel confident enough to take liberties. The above Harry/Sally sample is an innocuous way of conveying something precise but internal while making it more enjoyable for the reader.

                      You can also shift POV when describing someone's facial expression. For instance in your case:

                      HARRY
                      What is it any good?

                      He shoots Mia a quick look. Whatever doubts he may have had have just been obliterated by the expression on her face.

                      Or something to that effect.

                      Not only do we see the look on her face and understand what she's thinking, we actually see it through his eyes and sometimes that can reinforce the whole effect.

                      Anyway, have fun with things, play around with different takes until you find the right fit.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Is this OK?

                        HARRY
                        Is it any good?

                        Mia nods. OH HELL YES.


                        Could work, depending on the tone, genre, and context of the moment within the scene (or the importance of this moment in the entire film).

                        With writing for actors, you have leeway to spell out the intensity or color of emotion, if in the moment the range of emotions may be too broad because the dialogue is neutral (lots of subtext that isn't obvious). Think of writing for actors like drawing -- you don't need to draw every single feather to draw a bird, most of the time. How much or little detail you need to "draw" something is highly dependent on what's around it - sometimes a simple silhouette is all you need if "bird" is all that's necessary to move the story along. Other times, a bit more detail to distinguish "hummingbird" from "blue jay" if that distinction is important.

                        Example:

                        MAN: Everything okay?

                        WOMAN: Yes.

                        Let's say the scene before this showed the woman witnessing something horrific, or experienced something traumatic. In this case, it's much more powerful to just let the neutral dialogue speak for itself (so much of the subtext is obvious to the reader, actors, etc).

                        But let's say it may not be as obvious - let's say this exchange takes place in the beginning of the story, where the reader has no context for the relationship between these two or how they're feeling. Then it may make sense to spell it out.

                        Same thing with your Harry and Mia exchange. If Mia's character is pretty established by the time you get to this dialogue, less is more ("Mia nods" may even be enough, if you've established that she's a very demonstrative person; the fact that she's simply nodding makes it obvious it's not really that good; or the opposite - if she's so shy and unresponsive that she nods right away will tell the reader that she enjoys it very much).

                        And yet, there may be other instances where you want to keep it purposely ambiguous.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Is this OK?

                          Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
                          Writing becomes a hell of a lot more fun once you feel confident enough to take liberties.

                          Anyway, have fun with things, play around with different takes until you find the right fit.
                          Great advice Rantanplan, great advice.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Is this OK?

                            Originally posted by redturtle View Post

                            Could work, depending on the tone, genre, and context of the moment within the scene (or the importance of this moment in the entire film).

                            But let's say it may not be as obvious - let's say this exchange takes place in the beginning of the story, where the reader has no context for the relationship between these two or how they're feeling. Then it may make sense to spell it out.
                            Excellent points redturtle. Thanks for pointing that out.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Is this OK?

                              Originally posted by SBdeb View Post
                              Yes, but it's the EXPRESSION on her face I want to convey. I don't even necessarily want her to smile. Like, maybe when you taste the chili of your competitor and you're afraid that yes, it's better than yours and you kind of nod your head, and your expression says "yeah, I'm afraid so --it is good."
                              Mia nods: oh hells yes

                              Actor will know what to do with her face.
                              "IMO"

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Is this OK?

                                I'm skipping the three pages of comments, my apologies to everyone.

                                In short, yes you can write a non-verbal response. A gesture is not 'something internal' that 'we can't see'. You can see a gesture from an actor. Yes, actors like to find their own gestures, but so what?

                                Do not confuse 'nonverbal communication', including what can be deduced from visual clues like wardrobe or posture, from character background that you should reasonably see in the action, not in the description.

                                But even then, its not an absolute 'rule'. It would depend on the context and the flow of the story. The only absolute is don't be repetitive or boring.

                                From people who read your script only pay attention to whether they buy the trick/joke/effect or not. Everything besides their gut reaction is optional.

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