What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

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  • #16
    Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

    Interesting topic. I was thinking about this the other day and recalled how, when the Matrix first hit theaters, I overheard people from teens to 40s, 50s, talking about it. Sure, the kids loved "bullet time," but I also heard them discussing the concept "There is no spoon." As were the older folks. Somehow the idea that we're "plugged into" a prefabricated reality struck a chord with everyone. I think the film was a metaphor for what freedoms and indivuality we give up to enter and become part of a society. Even five-year olds sense it when they enter school -- the glory days are over, you're part of the machine now and forever after.

    The question is -- how aware of this core issue were the filmmakers? Or, did they just have a cool concept that happened to resonate on a deep level? Surprise! Or, can we as writers mine these deeper universal sentiments (fears, desires) and weave them into a cool story?

    Food for thought.
    Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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    • #17
      Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

      Originally posted by WritersBlock2010 View Post
      The writing is easy, it's telling a good story that is hard.
      I get the larger point here, but the execution we're talking about is the craft of screenwriting. How many folks look at all the crap coming out of Hollywood and think "Oh, I could do that"? And yet, after years of effort, most aspiring screenwriters never make it to an even competent level of professional screenwriting. Personally, I may not enjoy a lot of Hollywood fare, but I admire and respect the craft that goes into writing it. And I can supply a depressingly long list of failed screenwriters who can attest to how uneasy it is.

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      • #18
        Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

        Makes you feel. Laughter. Sorrow. Both.

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        • #19
          Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

          Originally posted by altoption
          I get the larger point here, but the execution we're talking about is the craft of screenwriting.
          One can write a movie with a complex, or clever execution, but that doesn't mean the overall story is good, or even worth telling, necessarily.

          And yet, after years of effort, most aspiring screenwriters never make it to an even competent level of professional screenwriting.
          In my experience, this is mostly due to them concentrating on the wrong things such as the minutiae of screenwriting and not looking at the bigger picture that deals with story telling as separate skill/craft.

          This is also referring to the more abstract nature of genres, too. Knowing the genre they are writing in is half the battle because genres have expectations and are templates for certain types of movies. Many aspiring writers disregard genres because they think they know them already since they've seen umpteen movies in the particular genre. But watching a genre movie and writing one are two different things entirely.

          Isn't good writing, good execution?

          Yes, and no, in my opinion.

          To clarify, when I say, "good writing" I am referring to the prose on the page. The grammar, sentence structure, vocabulary, etc. Of course, this is important. It should always be important.

          However, a lot of aspiring writers get too caught up in dotting every "i" and crossing every "t" they forget to look at the larger picture:

          How are they telling the story they want to tell? And is the story even worth telling in the first place?

          The latter is what I mean when I refer to execution... And this is where a majority of aspiring writers fall short in my opinion. Their writing might be good, but the choices they make telling their story... The execution... Is unoriginal, obvious, not compelling, flawed, doesn't follow genre conventions enough, etc.

          You often hear a lot of pro writers say, when they review scripts by beginners the main thing they tell them is to learn the craft more and try again. The craft isn't just learning how to write visually, or developing your voice. What they mean is learn how to tell stories in compelling and original ways (even if the premise/concept might not be original) because this is what separates those who have a better shot at making it from those who don't. At least, in my experience.

          This is what I mean, when I say, "Writing is easy, telling a good story is hard".

          If you can do both, then you're golden and stand a better chance at making it than if you can only do one, or the other.
          Positive outcomes. Only.

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          • #20
            Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

            Originally posted by WritersBlock2010 View Post
            One can write a movie with a complex, or clever execution, but that doesn't mean the overall story is good, or even worth telling, necessarily.
            This is key. A professor at my short story workshop (years ago) made this point over and over again: Is your story worth telling?

            Some people balked -- it's a short story. As long as it's interesting, entertaining -- it doesn't have to be life changing.

            (Because all fiction is intended for entertainment, they reasoned. If the work stands the test of time, then it's classic. But I doubt anyone sets out to write a "classic" novel or short story or screenplay.)

            But the prof repeated his mantra: Is your story worth telling? More food for thought.

            ETA: I have a feeling this discussion may lead back to the "theme" thing.
            Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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            • #21
              Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

              Something needs to captivate the reader to want to know how things end up 100 pages later. Something early in the script makes me want to know more. The captivation could come from a character or the plot, but I think that is what starts off a great script.

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              • #22
                Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

                Originally posted by altoption View Post
                I get the larger point here, but the execution we're talking about is the craft of screenwriting. How many folks look at all the crap coming out of Hollywood and think "Oh, I could do that"? And yet, after years of effort, most aspiring screenwriters never make it to an even competent level of professional screenwriting. Personally, I may not enjoy a lot of Hollywood fare, but I admire and respect the craft that goes into writing it. And I can supply a depressingly long list of failed screenwriters who can attest to how uneasy it is.
                this is a great post altoption. it actually brought to my mind an awareness that's been growing in my brain...

                i'm curious how much of the difficulty aspiring newbs such as myself could be attributed to... well, more than just visual writing, but, please don't laugh at this, for wont of a better word... geometry?

                writing in a two-dimensional space; for a three-dimensional space; that is intended for a two-dimensional medium; that is supposed to feel like a three-dimensional space? although we aren't directors, our mind to the page seems to be a front line director. only, the poor director has never seen a set, watched actors perform, etc. zero dimensional cue to launch the boat, in a manner of speaking... does any of this make any sense?

                it's like... well, someone in another thread said screenwriting was like playing basketball underwater. i don't recall if the poster was referring to this concept or not, but i'm just beginning to realize how accurate and profound that comment was. a writer's mind has to realize it's underwater before it can throw (or swim).

                this really is just a discussion as i'm genuinely curious about your thoughts or any suggestions you may have. to bring this back to your post, it reminded me of this geometry stuff. i am also beginning to appreciate and respect the craft that is going into screenplays; there's a whole lot of business going on under the surface.
                life happens
                despite a few cracked pots-
                and random sunlight

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                • #23
                  Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

                  I demand to know the step-by-step template for writing a great script.

                  Ideally, this will be in a form of MAD LIBS type of 110 page script where all I have to do is come up with character names and slugline locations.

                  And for this template, I shall offer $50!

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                  • #24
                    Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

                    Originally posted by Jim E View Post
                    Makes you feel. Laughter. Sorrow. Both.
                    Who said, "Laugh, cry, get a hard-on." ?
                    If you really like it you can have the rights
                    It could make a million for you overnight

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

                      What makes for an award winner???

                      Well, according to years past, true stories and historically significant events that skip the titillation and have a double dosage of positive ideals that are often humanistic.

                      ...I wish they kept the titillation out of more movies...it often comes off tacked on.

                      Anyway, I just think award ceremonies tend to be political... To go a little off topic, we all know about Art Carney beating out Jack Nicholson for best actor back in '74, and Annie Hall beating Star Wars in '77, to name a few upsets... And I liked Harry and Tonto better than Chinatown, but Chinatown was better movie...Carney got the Oscar for his whole career, not that one role... Which reminds me of Martin Scorsese being ignored his whole career until recently, winning for, arguably, one of his least Scorsese-esque films...what about Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Mean Streets!?! But that's another can of worms...acting...directing...

                      Anyway, my guess would be to write a true story that requires the actor to "stretch" themselves. But personally I think it's all a load of sukiyaki.
                      Last edited by fisherman; 09-11-2010, 12:59 PM.
                      "Right now it sounds like an urban Idiocracy meets Big in The Matrix (with a dash of Tron?)." --Mountain Goat, commenting on my screenplay ZONED OUT

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                      • #26
                        Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

                        Originally posted by sc111 View Post
                        This is key. A professor at my short story workshop (years ago) made this point over and over again: Is your story worth telling?

                        Some people balked -- it's a short story. As long as it's interesting, entertaining -- it doesn't have to be life changing.
                        Have to say your professor is wrong. There are so many ridiculously pointless stories that aren't worth telling but are so delightfully told that you're rapt from page one to the end. See the "Coens can do anything they want thread" if you don't believe that. Or just think of a lot of graham greene stories or Even Hemingway. It's the writing that makes them the reads they are in my opinion.

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                        • #27
                          Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

                          Originally posted by odocoileus View Post
                          Either I'm tired or The Big Heat was horrendously over-looked by whoever comprised those lists (especially the second).

                          Anyway, I seriously beg to differ with those lists entirely, but then the first is for screenplays - not finished films, and I've probably read about one from that list.
                          I also never liked Casablanca and it's continued hype and Bogart's hammy acting irks me.

                          So when is somebody going to come out with the realism of: there's no pleasing everybody?
                          Now get back to your writings, people, I'll have a script to trade notes with soon.
                          Cufk, Tish, Sips.

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                          • #28
                            Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

                            Originally posted by dirtbottle View Post
                            Have to say your professor is wrong. There are so many ridiculously pointless stories that aren't worth telling but are so delightfully told that you're rapt from page one to the end. See the "Coens can do anything they want thread" if you don't believe that. Or just think of a lot of graham greene stories or Even Hemingway. It's the writing that makes them the reads they are in my opinion.
                            To discuss this properly, we'd first have to agree on definitions of "pointless stories" and "stories worth telling." (Hemingway? Really?)

                            And though I haven't read the entire thread on the Coen Bros., I must be misunderstanding you. Are you saying their body of work consists of pointless stories?
                            Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

                              Annie Hall beating Star Wars was an upset???

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                              • #30
                                Re: What makes a great script? Perhaps an award winning script.

                                Originally posted by Grandmaster View Post
                                Either I'm tired or The Big Heat was horrendously over-looked by whoever comprised those lists (especially the second).

                                Anyway, I seriously beg to differ with those lists entirely, but then the first is for screenplays - not finished films, and I've probably read about one from that list.
                                I also never liked Casablanca and it's continued hype and Bogart's hammy acting irks me.

                                So when is somebody going to come out with the realism of: there's no pleasing everybody?
                                Now get back to your writings, people, I'll have a script to trade notes with soon.

                                It's true. There's no pleasing everybody. And every best list is a compromise.

                                What I get from reading scripts on those lists is an understanding of how they work. When I dislike a script or film, I want to understand why, and to understand what other people might see in them that I don't.

                                The Big Heat recommendation is a good one. I haven't thought about that film in years. Now I'll have to track down the script.
                                If you really like it you can have the rights
                                It could make a million for you overnight

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