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Old 08-02-2020, 11:28 AM   #11
Prezzy
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Default Re: Raiders of the None Arc

To me it's a question of why we're watching the movie in the first place. In Reservoir Dogs, for example, we're watching it to see if any of the robbers are going to make it out of the cluster they've found themselves in.

We care if they live or die, not if they've gone through a journey where they've discovered themselves and grown as individuals. If they do that, all the better, but given the stakes, it's not necessary.

I think Bono has it right. If there is a clear defined goal for the character, then the change can be more subtle.

But if you're writing a movie like Manchester by the Sea where the point of it is the main character confronting his own personal issues, then you might get some irritated audience members if the character remains static.
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:29 AM   #12
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Default Re: Raiders of the None Arc

So long as Ripley saved Jonesy in Alien [1979], then that was enough.

No-one cared if she changed as a person - only if she changed her clothes.
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: Raiders of the None Arc

In Alien she "killed" the monster. You left that part out. She went from normal day job to the "final girl" as most horror movies do. High stakes, life or death. So obviously her arc changes as when you're in that situation, you are never the same afterwards.
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: Raiders of the None Arc

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Originally Posted by Bono View Post
Point is -- if you take some of these screenwriting rules too far -- you can work your idea in the wrong way. That's the problem with a lot of these "rules" is that not all stories fit the rules and then you get confused.
No one's been talking 'rules'. You're the first.
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: Raiders of the None Arc

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Let me ask a question. Why are so many posts responses like this? It just kills the conversation -- doesn't add to it. So I'll let Crayon take it from here. He's much more helpful than me with his joke posts.
Rather than get defensive and blame others, hold your hands up for getting it wrong (no one was talking 'rules') or own up to your lack of clarity and explain why dived in with 'rules'. For someone who proudly self-styles themselves as 'unPC' you're acting like a snowflake millennial, jeez.
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Old 08-03-2020, 05:34 AM   #16
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Default Re: Raiders of the None Arc

I've never thought character arcs were necessary though it's always a nice thing to have. But as long as something changes for the lead character, and/or something that happened affects them, that'll do fine. Bond at the end of On Her Majesty's Secret Service is still Bond. Ditto Wick at the end of John Wick. Things happened, goals were attained, but they might not have had an arc. And they go on.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: Raiders of the None Arc

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You'd think the mods would realise I'm talking about screenwriting and not 'films' per se. Yeah, my OP mentioned 'films' but..ah, forget it.
The entire message board is about script writing. Essentially every forum relates to it in one form or another.

If you had posted a thread about discussing character arcs in scripts in general, then fine, that can go in that SCREENWRITING forum.

So, this is really where a thread like this should go. You brought up finished films as examples to discuss and that's what this forum is for in relation to script writing, production, reviews, box office, and so on.
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Old 08-03-2020, 03:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: Raiders of the None Arc

It's been a LONG time since I've seen this, but...

Taken does have a character arc. Liam Neeson goes from thinking he's out of the loop with his daughter, and from thinking he's not important to her anymore -- he shows up at the elaborate birthday party her mom and rich stepfather are throwing for her, with a (in his eyes) lame karaoke machine, which seems insignificant and out of place, and like he doesn't know his own daughter. She gives him a "it's okay, dad, I love it" sort of comment, making it even worse -- she's making it okay for him.

But then -- she gets taken.

And he's the only one that can save her from being sold as a SEX SLAVE!!

Let's stop right here. If you are a human being, in the grand scheme of life, what is more important? Receiving a present you love or someone saving your bacon from being sold as a SEX SLAVE????????

There is truly no comparison.

So by the end, after Liam Neeson has rescued her, he's also realized that though he might not be the kind of father that is living in the same house with her, or lavishing her with expensive (unimportant, ridiculous) things, he is in fact a very worthwhile and important father and one that should not be embarrassed or feel shame by the money her stepfather shells out for trivial crap like a damn party or presents she might like more than a karaoke machine.

**Just because its not a large, labored, "important" character arc doesn't mean its not there.
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Old 08-03-2020, 03:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: Raiders of the None Arc

There's a huge character arc in Noah [2014].

EDIT: Sorry - apparently it's an "ark".
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: Raiders of the None Arc

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Taken does have a character arc.
I'm not convinced it's much of an arc and wonder if it's more a case of proving to those around him - especially his ex and her fella - that he's got more to give than just wealth but you make a good point, nonetheless.
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