Click here for Done Deal Pro home page

Done Deal Pro Home Page

Loading

Go Back   Done Deal Pro Forums > Business > Agents, Lawyers & Managers
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-24-2017, 03:05 PM   #21
AnconRanger
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 554
Default Re: When your manager says you're "holding back."

the feedback i've received is not terribly specific. it is more along the lines of 'i felt like...' than 'i think that...'

-i really wanted to get lost in the story, but it just never happened.

-the story starts so late.

-the story is way too long. way too long. way too long. and you tend to repeat things.

-when you moved the story (from such and such place) you lost all the tension.

-open the curtains and shine more light in every so often. more daylight please!

-i felt like i was drowning. too much.

-i never did like her like i felt i should have. should i like her? i didn't want to. confused.

etc.

but every now and then it is nice to get something specific like, 'i think maybe you should have a stranger knock on the door at night, who won't go away. he keeps knocking, or something like that.' feedback like that knocks the character way out of their comfort zone, and the writer as well sometimes. very helpful. even when that sort of feedback will not work, it helps to realize the scene etc isn't working quite like it should. needs a knock on the door late at night. from someone who is not going to go away, and the reader will feel every bit of it.

Last edited by AnconRanger : 06-24-2017 at 03:57 PM.
AnconRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2017, 02:31 PM   #22
MargoChanning
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 826
Default Re: When your manager says you're "holding back."

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnconRanger View Post
the feedback i've received is not terribly specific. it is more along the lines of 'i felt like...' than 'i think that...'

-i really wanted to get lost in the story, but it just never happened.

-the story starts so late.

-the story is way too long. way too long. way too long. and you tend to repeat things.

-when you moved the story (from such and such place) you lost all the tension.

-open the curtains and shine more light in every so often. more daylight please!

-i felt like i was drowning. too much.

-i never did like her like i felt i should have. should i like her? i didn't want to. confused.

etc.

but every now and then it is nice to get something specific like, 'i think maybe you should have a stranger knock on the door at night, who won't go away. he keeps knocking, or something like that.' feedback like that knocks the character way out of their comfort zone, and the writer as well sometimes. very helpful. even when that sort of feedback will not work, it helps to realize the scene etc isn't working quite like it should. needs a knock on the door late at night. from someone who is not going to go away, and the reader will feel every bit of it.

Agreed. Specific feedback is always helpful.
MargoChanning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 11:33 AM   #23
DangoForth
Member
 
DangoForth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Secluded Mountain Fortress
Posts: 826
Default Re: When your manager says you're "holding back."

Some really good discussion. I can't add anything else, so I'm going to state the obvious...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MargoChanning View Post
When your manager says you're "holding back."
You say, "Shut up and dance with me."


(Walk The Moon)
DangoForth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 09:46 AM   #24
MargoChanning
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 826
Default Re: When your manager says you're "holding back."

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangoForth View Post
Some really good discussion. I can't add anything else, so I'm going to state the obvious...



You say, "Shut up and dance with me."


(Walk The Moon)
Best advice yet.
MargoChanning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 01:27 PM   #25
Ronaldinho
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,288
Default Re: When your manager says you're "holding back."

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnconRanger View Post
the feedback i've received is not terribly specific. it is more along the lines of 'i felt like...' than 'i think that...'

-i really wanted to get lost in the story, but it just never happened.

-the story starts so late.

-the story is way too long. way too long. way too long. and you tend to repeat things.

-when you moved the story (from such and such place) you lost all the tension.

-i felt like i was drowning. too much.

-i never did like her like i felt i should have. should i like her? i didn't want to. confused.
On the contrary, lots of this is GREAT feedback.

Because the person telling you this is telling you how they reacted. That information is gold. That is the only true feedback someone will ever tell you.

When somebody tells you how they reacted to your script, they are always right. If they were bored, you can't argue with them - they were bored. That's vital information to know.

Quote:
but every now and then it is nice to get something specific like, 'i think maybe you should have a stranger knock on the door at night, who won't go away. he keeps knocking, or something like that.'
But this is almost always terrible feedback. It's just something who isn't an expert throwing darts are your script.

It's so easy for them to give you a note like that, they're not thinking about it too much, and, heck, it only takes them an hour or so to read the script and give the note. You're the one who has to labor and make it work.

Now, sometimes you get a note like that and you can find the "note behind the note" - why is the person trying to add something to that part of the script? What wasn't working for them?

But that's the information you want. You don't want their solutions - you want their problems. Their proposed solutions are only useful to the extent that they help you understand their problems.

It's your job to come up with solutions.

You have to be the expert. You are the only one invested enough in the script to really put the work in to understand the implications of each change. (As the script moves towards production, other people may become equally invested - actors, the director, a producer - but most of the time you will still be, of all the invested people, the one who is the biggest expert on the story).
Ronaldinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 01:39 PM   #26
AnconRanger
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 554
Default Re: When your manager says you're "holding back."

good stuff as always.

i didn't say it wasn't good/helpful feedback (at least i don't think). i said it wasn't specific feedback.
AnconRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 06:45 PM   #27
Willoughby
Regular
 
Willoughby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Burbank
Posts: 295
Default Re: When your manager says you're "holding back."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronaldinho View Post
But that's the information you want. You don't want their solutions - you want their problems. Their proposed solutions are only useful to the extent that they help you understand their problems.
This, right here.

Bear in mind Neil Gaiman's quote about feedback: "Remember: When people tell you something’s wrong or doesn’t work for them, they are almost always right. When they tell you exactly how to fix it, they are almost always wrong.”

Also bear in mind phrases like "I think that..." and "I felt like..." are a good sign. They show respect to you as the creator of and main authority on the script. Instead of making blanket pronouncement as if they were facts ("The pace is...," "The characterizations are..."), they're offering the only statement they can be 100% sure of - their own impressions.
__________________
“The intrepid Spaceman Spiff is stranded on a distant planet! Our hero ruefully acknowledges this happens fairly frequently." Calvin & Hobbs
Willoughby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 10:24 PM   #28
AnconRanger
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 554
Default Re: When your manager says you're "holding back."

there is something ironic about neil gaiman's quote. at least to me. but i am a dumbbell. irony is tough on dumbbells.

it is all a twisted path through dark woods at times. and at other moments, you can picnic under the shade of the same trees on a sunny day. look up at the clouds and wonder aloud what they look like.

other days the clouds will dump heavy rain on your ass as you run toward your car. lightning shoots across the sky. 'put that in your picnic,' the weather says. and with authority.
AnconRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 11:00 PM   #29
StoryWriter
Member
 
StoryWriter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,132
Default Re: When your manager says you're "holding back."

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnconRanger View Post
other days the clouds will dump heavy rain on your ass as you run toward your car. lightning shoots across the sky. 'put that in your picnic,' the weather says. and with authority.
Then when the rain stops and you rejoice, until you realize the rain hasn't really stopped -- there's just a giant, freaking, hungry ant, standing above you and shielding you from the rain.
__________________
"I just couldn't live in a world without me."
StoryWriter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2017, 06:26 AM   #30
ComicBent
Member
 
ComicBent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,207
Default Re: When your manager says you're "holding back."

Anyone who tells you that you are holding back in your creative work almost certainly means that you could do better. It is a nice way of saying that you are not trying hard enough.
__________________

"The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." — ComicBent.
ComicBent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Done Deal Pro

eXTReMe Tracker