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Old 05-11-2019, 02:07 PM   #41
sc111
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Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

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Originally Posted by JoeNYC View Post
Excuse me? (He says in a playful tone.) sc111, you’re on fire. The break from the message board did you well.

sc111 says, “His point: any logline written about the Godfather is a snooze that will fail to convey the potential of the script.”

Yeah, it’s gonna be an uninteresting “snooze” if someone constructs the logline with having the engine of the story being the protagonist’s inner struggle as Mazin did.

I thought my logline example, using the external “A” throughline of THE GODFATHER story made for an interesting representation. Certainly, I don’t think people would categorize it as an uninteresting “snooze” as you say.

sc111 says, “Seriously? Are you claiming Mazin is being insincere simply to get his point across? As if a highly successful screenwriting really needs to con aspiring writers for some nebulous reason?”

I was under the impression that Mazin was demonstrating terrible loglines by intentionally writing a terrible logline for THE GODFATHER.

....


Joe: You're still missing Mazin's point (boldface mine):

Quote:
Craig: “Just read the script.” Just read five pages and if you don’t like them throw it out. There’s the logline. There is no logline. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Read five pages.
Which is prefaced by John August saying:

Quote:
John: Craig, it occurs to me that with this weekly feature memo people will be looking at loglines and you and I are always so dismissive of loglines.

Craig: Correct.
Hmmmm. Two professional feature screenwriters are dismissive of loglines. Not just 25-word loglines. Or 50-word loglines. Loglines, period. Why is that? Even more confounding -- one pro advises to tell the reader of an email query:

"There is no logline. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Read five pages."

As for the rest of your comment -- an exercise in pretzel logic.

You deduce that -- since no pro screenwriter challenged your various postings about various topics on Done Deal -- there's only one conclusion: your advice is golden?

Oh - I see. So, if I go on a discussion website for -- oh, I don't know, let's say health issues. And I post advice on -- hmmm, let's say: brain surgery.

And not one bona fide surgeon listed in the AMA pops up on that discussion site to naysay the pointers I offered on frontal lobe techniques, ergo my non-professional advice MUST be accurate and correct?

I don't think so.

Here's an alternate conclusion: pro writers aren't reading your postings on Done Deal.

And, offering as your "evidence" that Jeff Lowell has not challenged your "advice" as he had challenged Cyfress proves diddlysquat.

IIRC, Cyfress started changing people money for his "advice" and that's what set Lowell on a mission to take him down.

Let's test it: Start charging money for the reads you offer writers, here, and let's see if Lowell comes back with a vengeance. (She said in a playful tone.)

As for this:

Quote:
sc111, you’re on fire. The break from the message board did you well.
LOL.
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:20 PM   #42
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Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

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Here's an alternate conclusion: pro writers aren't reading your postings on Done Deal.
Impossible! I'm like a magnet. I draw people toward me. I'm drama. That's entertainment.

As for your overall post, sc111, I'll just leave it at you're entitled to have your opinion.
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:21 PM   #43
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Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

2 professional screenwriters with successful careers, who receive assignments from industry contacts they earned through years of perseverance, maybe don't need to sell their scripts using loglines. Maybe they don't belong in a discussion about loglines, at all.
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:36 PM   #44
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Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

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2 professional screenwriters with successful careers, who receive assignments from industry contacts they earned through years of perseverance, maybe don't need to sell their scripts using loglines. Maybe they don't belong in a discussion about loglines, at all.
Maybe. Or maybe their take is one to be considered. Maybe the idea that a writer should not follow "logline rules" in a cold query is an idea with legs.

Maybe.
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:41 PM   #45
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Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

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2 professional screenwriters with successful careers, … maybe don't need to sell their scripts using loglines. Maybe they don't belong in a discussion about loglines, at all.
Oh my.

John August and Craig Mazin are two respected and successful professional writers working in the industry. I would love to hear them discus logline construction, structuring with it's detail and major elements that would make for an effective logline to entice an industry person to request a writer's script, but they want to put the focus on reading the script instead, which is great.

The only problem: How to convince an industry person to read a writer's script, where he's not living in L.A. making contacts and relationships, winning the Nicholl Fellowship, etc.

For these people, one of the valid roads would be send queries with their logline, though to take this road to be successful would USUALLY require a high concept premise.
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:52 PM   #46
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Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

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Maybe the idea that a writer should not follow "logline rules" in a cold query is an idea with legs.
I'm not a fan of sending opening pages, 1-5, of a script without permission from the industry person. It's just not professional. And if a writer was to ignore the Hollywood standard of just a logline and nothing else without permission, then why 5 pages of the script?

Wouldn't a detailed 5 page synopsis be more valuable in expressing a writer's story. I'm just saying, common sense.
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:55 PM   #47
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Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

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Maybe. Or maybe their take is one to be considered. Maybe the idea that a writer should not follow "logline rules" in a cold query is an idea with legs.

Maybe.
'Tis a grand idea, for sure. Will it be regarded as innovative and cool, or will it be shot down as soon as they open the query? Who can say. Which way are you leaning? I'm skeptical, somehow.

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Oh my.

John August and Craig Mazin are two respected and successful professional writers working in the industry.
Yeah, I... pretty much just said that. I know who they are. Everyone knows who they are. Thank you.

Quote:
I would love to hear them discus logline construction, structuring with it's detail and major elements that would make for an effective logline to entice an industry person to request a writer's script, but they want to put the focus on reading the script instead, which is great.
Well that is the thing, that quoted podcast conversation suggests they aren't wanting to discuss logline construction, they don't like 'em (and maybe, as suggested, who knows, don't need to use 'em).

Quote:
The only problem: How to convince an industry person to read a writer's script, where he's not living in L.A. making contacts and relationships, winning the Nicholl Fellowship, etc.
Again we stray into Captain Obvious territory. That's not the case and it's unlikely to change, so the aspiring screenwriter must still query blindly using loglines. Which loops back to 25 words or 35 words?
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Old 05-11-2019, 03:03 PM   #48
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Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

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Yeah, I... pretty much just said that. I know who they are. Everyone knows who they are. Thank you.
Oh my. Someone's a little grumpy today. (He says in a playful tone.)
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Old 05-11-2019, 03:42 PM   #49
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Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

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'Tis a grand idea, for sure. Will it be regarded as innovative and cool, or will it be shot down as soon as they open the query? Who can say. Which way are you leaning? I'm skeptical, somehow.
I'm leaning the way I posted in an earlier comment: pasting page 1 of my script into the email. (Though the Starbucks line needs a bit of a tweak.)

What Craig Mazin said in that podcast resonated with me because it dovetails with experiences I've had as a freelance marketing/advertising writer when cold contacting potential clients for gigs.

The experience that serves as the best example: a client I've had for five years, now. Just got a check from them yesterday.

Every so often I conduct "prospecting" by looking at online job postings. Five years ago, I came upon an ad listed by a company over 200 miles from me as the crow flies. I was a perfect match for what they needed in a writer.

One problem, the ad specified: "This is a staff position. No freelance writers will be considered."

Hmmm.

I decided to send an email anyway. I pointed out the value of reconsidering their "no freelancers" decision. And I didn't even attach a resume. But -- damn -- I put time into crafting that two-paragraph email in the most compelling way I could.

One of the owners, a woman, called me a week later and I've been working for them ever since.

Funnier -- in this first call, I offered to send my resume and writing samples. She said, "I don't need to see any of that. If you can change my mind in two paragraphs I know you're a good marketing writer."

Then she asked me to give her a project price on writing an entire website for the new company they were about to launch. And I did. And I asked for a 50% deposit. And she sent the deposit overnight so I could get started ASAP.

I've landed gigs with out-of-the-box queries to companies that weren't even looking for writers.

I'm convinced that I've pulled this off because the quality of the first contact communicates the level of my writing skills.

This is why Mazin's comment got me thinking: why not? Why not defy all the rules. It's worked for me before.

What better way to communicate the quality of your script than by sending them page 1 pasted into your query?

Will there be dozens of managers or producers, or their assistants, that will hit delete as soon as their eyes lock on FADE IN? Sure.

But you only need one. Just one. One individual who reads the first page and responds -- Okay, I'm game, send the script.

Just one.
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:05 PM   #50
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Default Re: Log The Line... LOGLINES

That is a super story, cannot argue with what worked for you, quality shines.
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